5 - BEWITCHED and Andy's Emily Post Rivalry

Sean and Andy discuss the television giant, Bewitched. The surprisingly sexual pilot episode aired on 09/17/1964 and is available for free on Bewitched's Facebook Page (Seriously, LINK) and Amazon Prime (Link) as of Jan 2024.

Transcript

Sean: 0:01

Hey everybody, welcome to CoPilots. I am Sean Conroy and I'm Andy Secunda. On this podcast, we talk about TV pilots, the first episodes of television shows. Sometimes pilots become long running series. Others don't make it past that first episode.

Andy: 0:17

We're going to talk about all of them. The great pilots, the bad pilots, weird pilots, the forgotten pilots. We are TV writers, but it should be noted that we are the dumbest TV writers, you know, so all of these are just our dumb opinions.

Sean: 0:29

So dumb. I am excited to get into the pilot we're talking about today, but before we get into that uh, we have gotten some five star reviews, which is also exciting to

Andy: 0:44

as you know, if you, uh, send in your five star reviews, good or bad, uh, as long as it's five stars, you get your pilot's wings, which is not a real thing.

Sean: 0:54

That still bums me out, and I don't totally follow the logic of that.

Andy: 0:57

we also, uh, read a couple of reviews to thank our supportive few listeners. Sean, do you want to take it away?

Sean: 1:06

Yes, and I feel like we have more than a few supportive listeners Andy, so let's not qualify that The first review we got is from P Cron's This is the review the soul of a cop in a dog in a high school Send me my wing.

Andy: 1:24

Which is obviously a reference to Paczynski. I think, right?

Sean: 1:28

Well, but also Freaks and Geeks, right? it's

Andy: 1:31

Yeah, so it's everything.

Sean: 1:32

it's combining both of them.

Andy: 1:34

And honestly, I would have watched, Paczynski, The Cop Dies comes back as a, dog in high school. Much faster. And with much more eagerness

Sean: 1:45

Are we gonna go to the AV club meeting this afternoon?

Andy: 1:49

you've gotta be more chill and stay in the mathletes.

Sean: 1:54

Look, I gotta do something now that I don't solve crimes anymore.

Andy: 1:58

I mean, it writes itself very poorly. Uh, another one we have is from music critic, uh, who says great new show, uh, exclamation point. Awesome show. Andy and Sean are great hosts for this concept, offering great insights from working in TV with the banter of two long term friends. What really strikes me though, is how tightly produced the show is. The show says produced by Kevin McNulty. I don't know who he is, but it sounds like he should really get some on air credit because this whole thing is top notch. It also sounds like he's very handsome and actually not that short. Uh, again, the first episodes are terrific and I can't wait to hear more. is

Sean: 2:38

What's going on there?

Andy: 2:39

highly suspicious. Uh, I don't think anyone has singled you out, Kevin. Is this, did you write this one?

Kevin: 2:47

No, I had to shoot. I only chose 1 of the ones talking about Kevin.

Andy: 2:53

There's a lot of, there's a lot of reviews. Five star reviews talking about Kevin's contributions.

Kevin: 2:59

Yeah, I,

Sean: 3:00

first of all, let me just say this, I think Kevin did write this. And one of the giveaways is he was feeling guilty, so he didn't know what to say at the top. So he started by saying, great new show, and then he was like, what else can I say? Awesome show! Like he's immediately just repeating himself with different adjectives, you know?

Andy: 3:23

huh. What about the stuff we're about is how he's handsome. I don't know. I, this is a lot of, I'm very skeptical of the

Sean: 3:29

I also feel like Like, look at something where it says, They have great insights and the banter of two long term friends? That is a weird thing to say about us. Wait, wait,

Kevin: 3:43

think that's Well written.

Andy: 3:46

Well whatever the case, why don't we start talking about a pilot and not ourselves.

Sean: 3:52

wait. wait. You didn't let Kevin finish. He was going to say, I think that's well written. Also, whoever wrote it, wrote it well. But yes, Andy, let's, uh, let's get into an episode. So bewitched, of course started, 1964, ran until 1972, 254 total episodes. Over the course of eight seasons, which is a lot of episodes per season it

Andy: 4:16

is some might say it was a it was a huge success

Sean: 4:20

The giant a giant success

Andy: 4:22

I was just gonna ask We found out that Kevin Watched it in syndicated repeats. Have you Cause I did used to watch it, a lot in repeats. Did you watch it in repeats when you were a kid? I did not. I did not ever watch it. Not at all? Okay. Because one, go ahead. I was

Sean: 4:39

just familiar with the sound, you know. Right. Like that was the only

Andy: 4:43

thing I knew. Did you know the reference of her using her nose to twinkle stuff?

Sean: 4:47

I did, although I found that inconsistent throughout the pilot, and I thought that was

Andy: 4:51

confusing. I agree with you. They hadn't quite figured out her power set, as the nerds say, yet.

Sean: 4:57

I also could not tell which house she belonged

Andy: 5:00

in. What do you mean? Oh, in terms of Harry Potter? Yeah, sure, sure, yeah. Um, it's a good question. I would say a Hufflepuff. She's very into, uh... Taking care of a home being, you know, putting things together. He's, are you shaking your head? No,

Sean: 5:15

Kevin feels very strongly about the Hufflepuffs. I also just want to point out that they had their first rehearsal for the show. On November 22nd, 1963. Right. Which was the day John F. Kennedy was assassinated. So, I can only imagine that they had mixed feelings as they sat down to do their first

Andy: 5:35

table read. Well, what they had said was that, William Asher, who directed the pilot, was like the one who was the most affected by it because he was, they described him as friends with Kennedy, and that he had produced the televised birthday party where Marilyn Monroe sang Happy Birthday Mr. President. yeah, it must have direct connection. I mean, I think you can feel the weight of that tragic event, you know, in the pilot, in the pilot, for

Sean: 5:58

sure. It definitely casts a heavy shadow

Andy: 6:02

and there's that whole run that, Darren has about, you know, was it really multiple

Sean: 6:08

shooters, lone gunman? It's a weird

Andy: 6:11

digression. Yeah. uh, the thing that struck me watching this pilot, and I believe it's different in the series proper. Is that the pilot is an incredibly horny pilot. They're like, they're like, I

Sean: 6:25

was surprised actually when. when they were at the dinner party at the end and the wind came in, I was surprised it did not blow that woman's dress off. It was

Andy: 6:36

shocking. I

Sean: 6:38

was like, Oh, I know where this is going. We need to see some flesh, some more flesh. So we're going to lose the dress and show her, bodice and her

Andy: 6:47

undergarments. And I know at that, in that period of time, They would have had a lot of, you know, the culture was filled with go go dancers and stuff like that. So it feels like it would have been plausible, but I can't tell if on TV, they would have shown that or not. It seems like

Sean: 7:01

not, it seems like that was not

Andy: 7:03

a, I feel like maybe they just would have been reticent to do it in the pilot, but it does feel like you're right. It felt like. It was almost written to like, here we go. And then maybe there was a network note or something and they're like, come on, we can't do this in the pilot. But whatever the case, the thing that connects, we're losing the evangelicals, the thing that kind of connects to the, the horniness of the pilot for me is that behind the scenes, it was sort of a lot of scandalous, developments in terms of, first of all, I think that William Asher, the director of the pilot, and very instrumental in the creation of the pilot, was, together with, Elizabeth Montgomery before the pilot, and that was sort of instrumental in her kind of getting the role. but also, he was having... allegedly a bunch of affairs during the course of the show and that she also had an affair later in the run of the show with one of the directors and that, what led to their divorce immediately following cancellation of the show. So a lot of spicy stuff

Sean: 8:07

happening. Right. And also, you know, the, The mother, the witch's mother, was played by Agnes Moorhead, the famous pornography

Andy: 8:16

actress. Sure, sure. I mean, we all, what's your favorite Agnes Moorhead porn, Sean? I know you love that vintage

Sean: 8:27

porn. Yeah, well she did, she did one called Shafted and I thought it was really, uh... Touching and, and, well, mostly

Andy: 8:34

touching. Interesting. Mm hmm. Interesting. so, Saul Sachs created it, and, uh, he was inspired, by I Married a Witch, uh, with Veronica Lake, the film, and Bell, Book, and Candle, which is a stage show, turned into a, successful film, both which featured witches. Um, interesting that they both missed. The gimme of the title, which is there could, I, it's hard to think of other television titles or movie titles that both say what the concept is, communicate the tone of the concept, which is sort of lyrical and, and a little bit mischievous. Um, and also suggest this horniness that's in the pilot that to my memory is not as much, if at all. It feels like the rest of the series was more just Darren freaking out about stuff, which is in the pilot, but it's just almost purely like him going, Sam, no, we can't, no. It's not him going, but all right, if there's going to be some hanky panky, then that's right. It's like that, that part, I don't remember being that part of it. Maybe I was just young. And so I didn't know what was going on because they do play it pretty coy in this pilot, but Bewitched. Perfect title. and, Saul Sachs created it and I would love the backstory on this. Then done after the pilot crazy. Of course this happens a lot. In, uh, you know, throughout television history and especially in the modern world I feel like mostly, screenwriters, film screenwriters get that lofty position that usually only TV directors have of just like, well, I, I gave you the pilot episode and now I don't have to do it. My life does not have to be consumed by this

10:15

television

Sean: 10:15

show. And I get a bunch of money every, every

Andy: 10:17

episode. Exactly. Yeah. And I, looked around and I couldn't find any information of why he, unless he was just in that same lofty position then.

Sean: 10:25

Well, he, my understanding is he went and opened Saks Fifth

Andy: 10:27

Avenue. Oh, see, that's why, yeah, he wouldn't, he wouldn't need the, he wouldn't need the bread then, yeah. and then Danny came in, and he was described... Uh, as the head writer, which I assume was showrunner and unless it was, I think

Sean: 10:42

showrunner is not a term that existed until 20 years ago.

Andy: 10:47

I would be very curious if that's true. I think that's, uh, Kevin, get on that. Who was the first

Sean: 10:53

showrunner?

Andy: 10:54

Yes. Yeah. P. T. Barnum. Interesting. Cole Porter, and, Danny Arnold had said, uh, that he thought of bewitched as a, sort of a, a metaphor for, uh, a mixed marriage. Whereas, Elizabeth Montgomery, was asked if the show was an allegory, about, closeted homosexuality, and, uh, she said, uh, don't think that didn't enter our minds at the time. We talked about it on set, and that was in the 90s, so, I don't know if she's... Revising her perspective based on, you know, an advancing progressive, environment. I mean, I, I

Sean: 11:37

was very struck when I was watching it before I looked at the stuff that said that there was a consideration of being, of it being allegorical. I was struck by that of like. This is a weird thing where somebody has, I mean, here's what part of it is, is I just recently watched, an upright citizens brigade sketch from right before their show. Launched on comedy central. Uh huh. They were on Conan and they did a sketch about prejudice and everybody was pretty I mean you may remember this it was everybody was prejudiced against astronauts Yeah, and it was like astronauts are coming to our neighborhoods with their moon buggies and they're you know they eat breakfast upside down and it was clearly an allegory for Much more distasteful things to talk about. And I just watched that a couple days ago. So that's what I was thinking of the whole time while I was watching this, was her going, here's this thing about myself that you're not gonna like that I have to tell you. And him going, no, no, no, it's okay. Just don't do it anymore, you

Andy: 12:40

know? Well, that's what I like about it. And whether it is about female empowerment or it's about, you know, mixed marriages or racism or, or any of these things. it does seem like the show is pretty firmly on the right side of

Sean: 12:56

history,

Andy: 12:57

which is very interesting for a show that was made in the mid sixties. although, there was that stuff, certainly enough afoot, you know, progressive advancements afoot in the culture, but, for mainstream television to be. that's the beauty. of it being, allegorical and beneath the surface is that they could kind of get away with it. And

Sean: 13:18

I would say it's very fortunate that they chose not to make this show until the 1960s. Had they made it in the 1670s, 1680s, they would have all been burned at the stake. The

Andy: 13:29

makers of the show. Because they were involved in witchcraft. Right. And they would have said, you can't show up someone marrying these. These people that are servants of which,

Sean: 13:37

yeah, next thing she's going to make the milk sour and the cows, you know,

Andy: 13:44

that's actually a good idea for, another reboot is it, it takes place in Salem, Massachusetts in that era, be witched. Yeah. And they just, they just burn her at the beginning and that's it. It's

Sean: 13:55

just a pilot. We can't

Andy: 13:57

go further than that. shall we? Yeah. Get into it. Sure.

Sean: 14:02

so we start with narration by the great, I believe it was Jose Farrar. Correct. sort of in the style of a fifties instructional video complete with music and everything, telling us about these people who, and I think he says it this way. I, this is kind of what you're talking about with the salaciousness of the pilot, right? He says they became good friends and like, to me, I was like, oh, he's saying they fucked, right? Like, let's just get into it. and so it goes through their whole romance. They fell in love, they liked each other. They met in a. Revolving door. There's obviously a black and white and red all over joke there with, you know, one of them having a spear through their head, but they got, you know, they met in this revolving door. They went on a couple of dates. They did all sorts of interesting things. Everything they did was them kissing, which again, in my mind was just how they were fucking all over the place because it's the 1960s and I know what kissing means, right? And

Andy: 15:02

there is that that run where Jose Ferraro says, And they fucked on the park bench and they fucked in the back of the movie theater. It was bizarre. It was weird. What every, any two young red blooded Americans would do. Right.

Sean: 15:16

Yeah. There was a lot of red blooded Americans going on, uh, which was interesting. but finally they decide to get married. Yes. Yes. And it's their wedding night and she has to tell him the truth about herself.

Andy: 15:32

Yes. And just to go back for a second, one thing that is really impressive

Sean: 15:36

to me. This is a minute and 16 seconds into the show

Andy: 15:39

by the way. Well this is what is crazy and this is where it's like, even if it is Soul Sacks just doing the pilot where it is impressive and it is kind of almost the equivalent of what you want out of a director and why it's so important to get a great director for the pilot and a great writer for the pilot is. It's a sales tool, both to the audience and to the network. You have to sell them on it immediately. And from the beginning, it's incredibly charming. We're invested in, in this couple. They seem to have a lot of chemistry. Elizabeth

Sean: 16:09

Montgomery is beautiful. Relentlessly fucking

Andy: 16:12

each other. Do not stop. This is, that's really what they're saying. The top is this is going to be a show wherein you are going to watch these two go at it day and night. The supernatural element, that is going to be a side

Sean: 16:24

issue. I was like bewitched, more like be fucked.

Andy: 16:27

The original title of the show, it didn't fly in that era. Um, but anyway, yeah, they communicate it instantly, uh, in a coy way, obviously, but they just like. They had the typical wedding went on a typical honeymoon, and typical bridal suite, all of which is just like they said, they have a typical wedding. It's like, seems like they eloped. So I don't know if it seems that typical Um, but then it's except, uh, so happens that this girl is a

Sean: 16:56

witch and they, and they show that by having her not be able to go across the room to get her hairbrush. Yeah, that's the big. Exposure of the powers

Andy: 17:05

at the beginning. It so happens that this girl is paralyzed from the waist down! And she's telekinetic.

Sean: 17:11

So she gets, she somehow casts a spell that brings her hairbrush over and she starts brushing her hair and now we know she's a witch. Right.

Andy: 17:19

But The idea that she, that he calls her a girl and to me Elizabeth, Montgomery reads, she's 30 in this pilot and she's always read as someone who was perpetually in her mid thirties, which is good for TV. and just, it immediately struck me as just like, this lady's not a girl. Come on, what are you doing? Um, but the other thing is just like, as we're saying, just immediately you're sucked in immediately. You get it. It's not the most hilarious jokes, but they're so charming. It doesn't matter.

Sean: 17:53

It always feels to me a little bit like cheating when you have a narrator like that at the

Andy: 17:56

beginning and they do it a lot in pilots. Yeah. It's

Sean: 17:59

like a lot of exposition can be gotten out of the way it's the same thing I always think about when I watch documentaries where I'm like, Oh yeah, of course you can do all sorts of exposition without,

Andy: 18:09

I guess what I've come around to, even though I know it's taken the voiceover has taken a lot of hits in particularly in sitcoms, in the last decade or two, knowing what every pilot is up against in terms of, you know, getting it on the air, getting it on the air, the elixir of everything being perfect, knowing that you're going to have to overexplain every beat to get through testing, uh, audience testing that is, Uh, I'm going to like, just let us use the, the, uh, the shortcut for the pilot, even though it's cheating.

Sean: 18:40

so they cheat their way through the first minute and a half of the, of the pilot and then her mother comes to visit. Yes, good old Agnes Moorhead four time Best Supporting Actress nominee. Really? Yeah.

Andy: 18:53

I didn't know that. Mm hmm

Sean: 18:56

Star of such classic films as Citizen Kane. Uh huh

Andy: 19:02

Others Others are my favorite

Sean: 19:09

Anyway, she's there to visit her daughter. Others

Andy: 19:11

are the giants of cinema history

Sean: 19:14

She's there to visit her daughter and she doesn't think this marriage is a good idea. So she's going to prevent it. She's going to make sure that Darren does not get to marry her daughter. And we see her powers right away because he is in the other room. He's about to come in the bedroom. We all know why. We all know what goes on in the bedroom. Very clear. And as he's about to come in, she moves him to the lobby of the hotel. Right. In an

Andy: 19:42

effect that's not that bad for the schedule they were shooting on television. It was like,

Sean: 19:46

oh, okay, so they're slightly in a different place as the world shifts around them, you know. Almost unnoticeable.

Andy: 19:54

Uh, almost. Uh,

Sean: 19:57

so then he's in the lobby of the hotel. And Darren proves to be... Quite implacable. I hope I'm using that word correctly, but he does not flinch. He just goes to the desk and says, can I have my room key please? Yes.

Andy: 20:09

He blames it on the champagne, which really suggests he must be a teetoler to a lot of the rest of the time.

Sean: 20:17

He says he had one glass of champagne. Yeah. And he thinks he's, uh, he's,

Andy: 20:21

is this, maybe we're wrong about this guy. Maybe this is the first time he's had sex. So that's why he's so focused on it. That's

Sean: 20:28

possible. so then, uh, I'm trying to remember how this went down, but she tries to get rid of her, her mother. He's still in the other room. Now he's, he's gotten his room keys, come back up to the other room. She tries to get rid of her mother by doing a, a spell, which involves saying a lot of words, words that rhyme. Yeah. And at 1.1 of the words is B U C K spells buck. And I was like, oh, that's a tip of the hat to another word that is very similar to that, you know, like they're really on this kick about, you know, she can't get rid of her mother. So she goes out to tell, she's gonna tell him that she's a, that she's a witch, and she says, I'm a witch. And he says, A what? There's a, there's a cutaway. Yeah. As she's about to tell him.

Andy: 21:16

And the thing that's interesting to me about that segment is, he decides, as people often do in television, that, well, she must be crazy, my wife has a mental illness, and then she, uh, And then he's like, yeah, that's fine. I still want to have sex with her. Like, okay, well, why don't we worry about that tomorrow? I think he blames it on the champagne again. Right. You're in a, see, I feel like he's decided that she has a serious problem and is just brushing past it because he wants to get to the nookie, which is really makes him morally questionable in that moment.

Sean: 21:50

Right. Well, he says, he, you know, he, he says he has an aunt who thinks she's a lighthouse. Right. So, and then. Uh, the witch says, this

Andy: 22:00

is when mental illness was hilarious.

Sean: 22:03

Well, specifically the brand where you think you're a lighthouse. And she says, how do you know she's not a lighthouse? So it devolves into this very rational conversation about what do we really, you know, it's a philosophical thing of like, do I exist? And if I exist, are these thoughts really my thoughts? Or could I be a lighthouse that's just out there and I'm. On the shore somewhere, and I think I'm on the roof of the garage.

Andy: 22:27

Right, which suggests that maybe that's a, that's a, that's a high conversation. So maybe that's what he should have said is, oh, maybe it's the pot or the acid we took. Right, um.

Kevin: 22:38

I thought in his defense that he, because I also was mindful of that moment when he was like, let's get back to bed. Yeah. I read it as, at that point, he was just trying to get her to sleep. That he wasn't as much, like when he kind of looked defeated and just sat down on the couch and was like at a low point. I, maybe I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt.

Andy: 22:57

Let me ask you a question, uh, Kevin. Cause Sean and I have been talking a lot about how they, they've had, they're fucking all over the place. In your take, had they never had sex, then they never will have sex on the show based on your...

Kevin: 23:09

No, no, no. I also read as being euphemisms for them having sex. Okay. Which also kind of lowers the... Odds in my mind that he's that sex obsessed. This one night

Andy: 23:20

Uhhuh

Kevin: 23:20

like if anything, if they had never had sex,

Andy: 23:22

do you think he just wants to get her to bed? Put the, put the, put the, the cover over her?

Kevin: 23:26

No, I, the first in the scene, he definitely wanted to have sex and was definitely like, it's okay, we'll have sex. But I think then he, when he's like, oh wow, she's actually crazy. I thought he was like, let's just go to bed. You're,

Andy: 23:35

that's a very gentle and, and sweet interpretation that is possible. In retrospect, I don't think that's what the show was saying, but it is possible. No, I mean, I want to believe that about Darren, certainly if I'm going to watch, you know, eight seasons of it. We,

Sean: 23:47

we, we don't have to get too into it, but do you think if somebody told you that they were a lighthouse, you could prove to them that they were not a lighthouse?

Andy: 23:55

I think if they were really, like, a great debater, then I think it would be very difficult for me to do that. Right. It seems like a hard... Because you'd have to get into the nature of reality and I don't have any philosophy classes under my belt. Yeah,

Sean: 24:08

it's, it's a very philosophical discussion. Yeah. Um, like what's real, what's not real. Then we find out that Darren is from Missouri, originally, because he says, you know where I'm from, Missouri, you know what that means. Show me which seemed like it was supposed to be a joke, but it was constructed in such an odd way and it felt like they were Making him be from Missouri just so he could say show me about her powers Yeah, I I just wonder if going forward we're gonna see a lot of Missouri based humor or Missouri references on the show I

Andy: 24:43

do appreciate I have a friend who wrote on, I think it was called love Sydney, which was a Tony Randall

Sean: 24:50

show. I was going to ask if you're going to tell that story about your friend who worked on low Sydney. Have I already told

Andy: 24:55

it on this podcast? Okay. uh, where basically, they wrote something in about, his character early on and Tony Randall objected. I guess having been on The Odd Couple, you know, for such a long time said, well, I just want to sort of basically say, I don't think we should have this character say this because everything you have this character say, that is who that character is. From that point forward, you have to build around that. So don't do a short money joke unless you know, you, you know, mean something. Yes. So this is perfect. I don't know how much him being from Missouri would, it does feel like it fits the persona, but it did strike me that he's like, Oh, he's a New York advertising guy from Missouri. Sort of interesting.

Sean: 25:39

but anyway, she starts to show him, he, he tries to light a cigarette. He can never get which I this was an interesting moment to me I didn't even know that there was such a thing as a table lighter. Were you familiar with the table

Andy: 25:52

lighter? You've never seen like some novelty item. That's

Sean: 25:55

yeah. Sure. No, I mean I know You know a Zippo or the thing you carry around in your pocket. Yeah, I had never seen it So he can he says I can never get a table lighter to work and bingo. She gets to work for him So yeah, she's proving it to him and then he's trying to put the cigarette in Or the window goes up and down the window opens and then the ashtrays put that yeah The ashtrays going back and forth. She gets him a drink, right? Then he says I want an old fashioned and this is where There's just several moments there and again as you said for the time it was fine But it is funny just to see that they're trying to match the shot exactly Yeah, but it's off by a tiny bit,

Andy: 26:38

but did it bump you I

Sean: 26:41

just feel like we have such incredible special effects at this point right that It's hard to watch something like that And not kind of get a kick out of how simple and primitive it is,

Andy: 26:52

you know? yes. To me it's sort of like, uh, it certainly didn't bother me as a kid. And I think, uh, as an adult, again, even knowing it, the level of effects now. I don't tend to be as bumped by like, if they're making the attempt and it's done in a in an aesthetically pleasing way, which I feel like these mostly were like, you know, it's just, they did, they didn't reach beyond what they were capable of doing. It's like they can make the window open and close. They can make the, you know, rig up the, the ashtray with magnets. So it's not. Yeah, you know, this, it's like they were all choices that were like, Hey, I'll buy that.

Sean: 27:29

Right. And I, I'm not saying it bummy. I'm just saying I was sitting here on my couch watching it and I was like, Oh, come on,

Andy: 27:35

she's not magic. I know she's not magic, please. uh, going back for a second, uh, cause one of the thing I wanted to say about that I think is. Is this about Missouri? Yeah, I mean, Show Me State is such a great slogan, don't you think?

Sean: 27:52

They almost made them from the land of 10, 000 lakes. And they were like, how are we going to live up to that

Andy: 27:56

premise? You know me.

Sean: 28:00

Well, I had another day and I'm up to 9, 433 different lakes I've been to.

Andy: 28:07

Still going. the, uh, title sequence, the, uh, is one of, in my thinking, one of the great opening sequences of, I think. I don't know if this is overstating it. I feel like The long running aspect of a show could be built on 17 percent the opening sequence, the opening title sequence. This has such a recognizable theme. That's sets the tone of being lyrical and charming and upbeat and light and a little bit cute. And

Sean: 28:40

just as soon as you hear the theme of like. Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan,

Andy: 28:45

Dan, Dan. You know that something ominous is going to happen. And, uh, and the, uh, the cartoon that's obviously so sixties of her, but she's still like, it's a cute cartoon that sort of, is it Hanna Barbera that did it? Yep. There you go. This is great. And, the logo, it's just, and it's just, it's just such a great sequence that sets the tone immediately. And I think it really buys you a lot of momentum into the show that, you know, not having Jose Ferraro at the top of every episode really helps set it all up. so I just wanted to give my hat tip to that. And by the way, it was, uh, written by Howard Greenfield who, uh, wrote Love Will Keep Us Together and Breaking Up is Hard to Do and, uh,

Sean: 29:28

love will keep us together. Was that captain and Tennille? Correct. No. they thought there were a lighthouse, uh, but, here's the other thing that I think is interesting about the, about the opening sequence. The animation is like, I feel like animation, which a lot of people refer to as cartoons. Yeah. immediately sets a tone of childishness like people think they look at that and go oh this is this is a thing for kids I'm not saying with this I'm saying generally speaking when people think of animation they think of children right so I think in a way this is an even more bold choice I think you're right it sets a great tone for the show The show is not a children's show in any way, but I think it's a big choice to make the opening sequence cartoons. That's true. Because it would make a lot of people go, oh, this must be for kids. That's

Andy: 30:22

true. Also, the uh, even though it's animation, it still maintains a little of that sexy quality of like, you know, she jumps, the cat jumps into his arms, and then it's her, and then it's like, you know, it sort of has that little weird sexy mischievous quality, even though it's a cartoon.

Sean: 30:40

They're about to be cartoon

Andy: 30:42

fucking. Is that what it is? Was he gonna have sex with that animal? Oh my goodness.

Sean: 30:47

Okay, so now he has a drink, they have, he knows she's a witch, but he doesn't, he doesn't know how to deal with it, so he says, we will figure this out, and they kiss, and then we're out on that, Then we come back and there's some great beats of him trying to talk to people about his problem, right? He talks to his friend who does not listen. That's how friends are. They don't listen to a word you say. You tell them what's going on and they have their own agenda of how they're going to solve your problem. So that the joke is he's saying things. His friend is saying something completely different. It's two different. Conversations happening at the same time. And it ends, of course, with the friend saying, Well, I guess I've done my job here. Anytime you want advice, feel free to ask again. And leaves. And he's not any better off than he was when he started. Which to me is a

Andy: 31:36

little bit of wasted real estate. It's interesting because it's such an economic economical pilot and just like, it's so tight. You have all the information you need. You can totally, it sets it up perfectly for where the show is going after this. And that scene, I guess, is to address Darren would do in the real world after he found this out. And they sort of skirt the issue of, well, he would go to someone and say, This is what happened and sort of just like, well, everybody thinks he's crazy or isn't paying attention to him. So it sort of cauterizes that issue. So you're not thinking about it anymore. So I guess in retrospect, now that I'm talking it out to myself, they address a huge issue in record time. Um, but I don't remember moving forward. I guess they must've decided. And I don't know if it's on screen or off screen that from that point forward. Uh, because I think it's becomes a major issue that he says you have to hide that you're a witch, right? So, well,

Sean: 32:35

that's what happens is he talks to his friend, he talks to a shrink and he talks to a bartender, right? None of them are helpful in different ways. So then he comes back to her and says, I love you. I can't give you up. No more witch stuff. Right. And, we all know that that's how you treat. Your partner in an equal and loving relationship as you tell them not to be themselves,

Andy: 32:59

right? Particularly if that's an aspect of you that empowers you or makes your life better in some way,

Sean: 33:05

right? He tells her she's gonna have to cook She's gonna have to keep house They'll have to go to his mother's house on Sundays for dinner. So it's You know, he obviously lives a great life. I do think I mean, here's here's the thing that always bothers me in Any pilot is those three scenes of those people. I do feel like you could lose those and you wouldn't lose a lot in terms of story stuff. So it is, I agree with you. It is wasted real estate. It's like, who cares?

Andy: 33:34

I think that's true. But even in sort of talking it out to myself, I now feel like. Well, you would ask, what does a guy do or anyone do when they, their eyes are open to this larger mystical world or supernatural world. So it addresses it

Sean: 33:48

at least. And I think the other thing about it that I was thinking about while I was watching it was if you don't have that, it's just a glimpse into possible. Other parts of their world, like that it's not just the two of them in the house all the time. There's other things going on, which I think

Andy: 34:07

is important. I don't remember if that friend, how much a part that friend plays in at all in any future episode. Um, I know that he has a boss that, that figures in pretty heavily.

Sean: 34:19

But yeah, but I think in a pilot, it doesn't matter. It's just like, is there other stuff going on? No. clearly he loves going to bars cause that's two of the three things he does. Right. And then he also has a shrink and I'm not saying those things are related, but you know, it does kind of

Andy: 34:33

go together. So you're saying, you're suggesting he has a drinking problem and that's the

Sean: 34:36

reason he's saying they put a lot of emphasis on what was going on with that stuff. But it was advertising. We've all seen Mad Men. So we know that that's what those people were like.

Andy: 34:44

Well, this was the other thing is that what I like about the show is it's such a quintessential television show. He's in advertising. Ironically, my father was in advertising, um, in New York. And your mother was a witch. And my mother was a witch. So I really lived bewitched. So this may be the distinction between why I felt like it was a more important television show than, uh, than Sean does. Um, but it is interesting whenever they, they use that go to Of, uh, he's in advertising, which I guess that was the way to, and I think there are equivalents of that today, like podcast or stuff like that, where it's like, this is the way for screenwriters and television writers to write basically about a creative person who isn't a writer who isn't a TV or film writer.

Sean: 35:28

so they, they decide they're gonna, they're gonna figure it out. she's just not going to do witch stuff anymore. It's going to be great. They're going to have a great marriage where she does a lot of cooking and cleaning and a lot of putting up with his mother and things are going to be great. And then she leaves and there's a great, breaking the fourth wall moment where he turns and talks to the camera and says, everybody has things in their marriage. So, you know, she's a witch.

Andy: 35:51

So what? So my wife's a witch. Every married man has to make some adjustment and it's really.

Sean: 35:57

Crazy. Every marriage has its stuff.

Andy: 36:00

It's such a crazy moment to have him break the fourth wall. That's not necessary. And we're not, we're seeing the show clearly through Samantha's eyes. We're not seeing the show through his eyes. It's very strange for him to suddenly Ferris

Sean: 36:15

Bueller us in the camera. I had to rewind it because I was like, wait, is he really just talking to us?

Andy: 36:18

And he's not. Dick York is, is, you know, perfect in this part. Um, But he's not our emotional surrogate. As a matter of fact He's no, he's

Sean: 36:29

no Phoebe Waller

Andy: 36:30

Bridge. Exactly. I would go so far as to say in my memory, and this is why it's not a show that I've returned to that much, although I did watch, a lot of episodes as a kid, I love that she was wonderful. I thought the, the, which part of it was great, even as a kid, which part of it, which part of it? Yeah, that's what I said. The, which the fact that she is a, which, um, that kind of shit never gets old, doesn't it? and so I like that. And part of the reason I drifted away from it is Darren kind of stresses me out. He's so Worked up and I, that's the comedy is just like, Oh no, she's doing another magic thing now. And it's like internally, I just kind of like let her do her cool magic stuff. What are you doing? And I'm not

Sean: 37:20

thinking about the point of the show. You're supposed to be bewitched.

Andy: 37:23

Why have you been such a fucking wet blanket fucking ease off. And it's interesting that in the pilot, they were playing both that. He's a wet, oppressive wet blanket and that he's a fuck machine.

Sean: 37:36

And I guess they lost the fuck machine. They did, yeah. Which is the part that's less funny. Because, fuck it is cool.

Andy: 37:44

I think we can both, we can all agree on that.

Sean: 37:46

By the way, could we use that maybe as the name of the podcast? Which, say it again? Fucking

Andy: 37:51

is cool? It definitely would counterbalance for the fact that all of our shows are from, uh, From 1960s and before.

Sean: 38:00

And now, our pilot, Fibber McGee's closet.

Andy: 38:05

Remember, fucking is cool. Was that what it was? Did I already get it wrong?

Sean: 38:11

No, that was what it was. You're right.

Andy: 38:14

Even fucking is cool is a little bit of a a tepid phraseology for that, the content of that sentence.

Sean: 38:21

Okay. so all we've done so far throughout the entire pilot, which is basically two thirds over at this point, right? Is decide whether they're going to stay together or not and how they're going to make that happen, which I will say you have to do that on a pilot like this because it's about her being a witch. It would be hard to start the pilot of like Well, it's just another day of being married to a witch. Here I

Andy: 38:45

am right, which is why my complaint is insane. That why is he so upset all the time? Because that's the conflict, but it does really put that character in a position where it's just like, I don't like this part, but the conflict come from the

Sean: 38:58

outside, it means that going into the third, the last third of the show, a lot of things have to happen in order to make us understand what the show is going to be like going forward. Like every episode is not going to be. Should I stay married to this woman or

Andy: 39:12

not? No, although this one is.

Sean: 39:16

This episode? Yes. That's what I'm saying. Like, you know, I feel like when you watch the pilot a lot of times you want to know what the show is going to be like going forward. Right. And that's what the last third of the episode does for us.

Andy: 39:27

Right. You know. But to the, to your point, one thing that struck me. Um, and obviously it's convenience because they had such a great right way in, and they want to make all that big deal about, uh, you know, them being, uh, red blooded Americans that can't, uh,

Sean: 39:42

It doesn't get any more red blooded than Missouri.

Andy: 39:46

but, uh, she doesn't tell him that she's a witch until after they're married. Yeah. So I don't know if this was a... a metaphor for queerness. I wonder what the, are they saying like she doesn't reveal that until afterwards? I'm not sure what the, how that would tie in like that she has no interest in him or I don't know what that was. I think

Sean: 40:08

it was just. allegorically it's about hiding something. Hiding

Andy: 40:12

who you, who you really are. Right. So, but if you look at it from here, Not

Sean: 40:16

necessarily about their relationship, it's about hiding it from everybody. Right. But it did,

Andy: 40:21

it did immediately. And I think they do kind of, I guess you could argue, well, they're just showing that she's, you know, a human being with certain flaws, but by memory is that. Samantha is, just a purely good person. And in this pilot, it's kind of like, she's jealous. She's, you know, she's willing to use her powers to mess with people. um, there's like a couple of different things in there, even though she's essentially on the side of, you know, just, well, I don't want to rock the boat, which I don't know if you can call that, quote, good. But it is interesting that she's like, well, I'm not going to tell him this until after we're married, which you know You could argue is maybe a little deceptive deceptive and then after they're married, Uh, there's the idea of, well, are we going to stay together now that I know you're a witch and the pilot is yes, we are,

Sean: 41:08

Right. So now they both know that she's a witch. She already knew that before. He did not. Now they both know. And they're just gonna go... This woman, Sheila, I guess is her name. Sheila? Or what's the woman's name? That's Sheila, yeah. Sylvia. Sylvia? Yes. Anyway, she comes into his office and He, he thinks he's going to break to her this terrible news about how he's, he's married. She clearly, it felt to me like they might've been fucking too. Like he was, I

Andy: 41:35

feel like it is implied that, that they were right. And I wonder what was a, I guess, I guess everybody was doing everything by that point in time.

Sean: 41:43

Right, right. Um, well, that's been true since time immemorial. It's just whether or not

Andy: 41:48

people are willing to speak to that. No, people didn't have sex before 1950.

Sean: 41:51

I think, well, Kevin, can you look that up? But anyway, she comes in and he thinks he's breaking terrible news and she already knows. She knows that he's married. Right. And... He's dreading this moment. They have the conversation and she's like, Oh, of course. I knew already. I knew you were married and why don't you and your lovely bride come to a dinner party at my house? It's nothing formal. You can sit on the floor and wear a smock. No one cares. And then, of course, they show up to the house and it's a big formal

Andy: 42:21

dinner party. I also love that it's The way she screws Samantha is with that, just like a dress where we never want. And so she wears a sort of fine outfit and still looks stunning. And her hair is perfect and it's absolutely beautiful. But for some reason we're supposed to interpret it as just like, Oh boy, look at how terrible she looks. She's like wearing a

Sean: 42:43

garbage bag. How embarrassing to show up and not be dressed in formal wear at a dinner party. So then there's the whole climax of the episode, which is she ends up seated. And I wanted to look this up and I forgot to, but like, is that a normal thing? At a dinner party, you put spouses like as far away from each other as you possibly can. I

Andy: 43:07

think you're not supposed to seat them together, but I think, I don't think you're supposed to seat them as far as, as they're seated. I think that's,

Sean: 43:14

I have never been sat far away from my spouse. At

Andy: 43:18

a dinner party. I wasn't aware that you were married, Sean. I am not.

Sean: 43:21

So that's probably why. I see.

Andy: 43:24

Well, I'll have to check the, uh, the etiquette book that I wrote. Emily Post. You can find it on our website. Oh, you wrote an etiquette

Sean: 43:29

book? I wrote, yes, yes. Oh, I'm sorry. I was pushing the Emily Post

Andy: 43:32

book. I really, I hate that you do that every time I bring up my etiquette book. I just think hers is very well written. Well, mine's very well written too,

Sean: 43:39

okay, Sean? It's more concise. It has more instructional value.

Andy: 43:43

Yes, but mine has more pizzazz and style. Mm hmm.

Sean: 43:46

Uh, anyway, they sit very far apart. Sheila or Sylvia, whatever her name is, is clearly flirting with Darren or Darryl, whatever his name

Andy: 43:57

is, Darren. It's a very, very big part of television history that the Darrens were switched out at a certain point. Samantha

Sean: 44:04

is clearly disturbed by the flirtation between Sylvia or Sheila and Darren or Darryl. And. starts to become upset, you know, she's like, not sure what to do. She does not have a great, choice of seating. She's next to a man who is fascinated by his own

Andy: 44:22

soup. by the way, you know what? Maybe it's now that we're talking about it, because Sean and I were, we're asking, uh, you know, what did we, who watched it in black and white, who watch in color, though the first two seasons of the show I believe aired in black and white so I don't know if it's an

Sean: 44:37

actually just to be clear You're saying the show was shot in color But aired on television in black and

Andy: 44:42

white I assume first two years that must have

Sean: 44:45

been the case But now when they show it they show it in color or at least the ones we

Andy: 44:50

watched that is that's that's my assumption Because I don't believe that these were colorized. So, and if they were colorized, this is really what I'm getting to. The C

Sean: 45:02

did they colorize Schindler's

Andy: 45:03

list? They colorized, one part of it with, uh, a balloon. A red balloon. A red balloon, correct. Or no, wait. I think I'm mixing the red balloon and the girl in red.

Sean: 45:15

Schindler's List was about a balloon floating through Paris, right?

Andy: 45:19

I somehow just, I just took a horrible joke, a horrible upsetting joke, and

Sean: 45:25

I It's a little kid goes to school and the Nazis are outside. Side and they eat. Oh my God. He hides his balloon outside the window and then the balloon floats away and he follows the balloon through the streets of Paris. I mean, at least until he ends up in a concentration,

Andy: 45:38

it has that upbeat ending where the balloon, uh, strangles Hitler and flies away with him at the end. So there's, you know, it's, that's the Tarantino version. That is the Tarantino version. Anyway, my point is the soup looks like crap. Oh my God. It's the worst. It's just this gray pallid goo. It's the worst. And they're all like, and now I wonder like, well, what, what, what the actual color was, or was that the actual

Sean: 46:03

color? And did those poor actors have to actually keep eating that stuff as they shot that scene

Andy: 46:08

over and over again? And I wonder if they didn't care what it looked like because it was in black and white. Yeah. Although, you know, frankly. I'm kind of surprised the show did as well as it did without Elizabeth Montgomery's beautiful green peepers, you know That was a real feature of the

Sean: 46:23

show. I that may be why they switched over to color or it could have been technology So anyway, she's not sure what to do and finally she decides even though she said she wouldn't yes She decides to use witchcraft On the hostess. That's

Andy: 46:39

right. And she summons Satan from the depths of his domain and, he appears and starts to gnash his teeth and tear the guts out of each party guest. It's a very dark, a lot of blood. That's not what happens.

Sean: 46:55

No, she just, she, she, this is where I get a little bit. I can't remember if we said this on the show or off the show. I don't know what we've been doing, but I was familiar with the, with the xylophone sound and the, and the nose wiggling as the way she, as the way she casts spells, it's like, I think

Andy: 47:15

it's more like a little too slow.

Sean: 47:20

But she doesn't do any of that to start with. She just rubs her head and the woman's hair falls forward on her face, which is a horrifying moment where you think you've been attacked by a witch when a little piece of hair falls forward on your forehead. Very subtle. Uh, then she gets, she does another crazy witch spell. That gives her, uh, food in

Andy: 47:44

her tooth. Yeah. I thought she knocked out her tooth, but it is just, Darren just goes, Oh no, you got something in your tooth. Yeah.

Sean: 47:50

and then. Again, this goes back to how disgusting the soup is. She accidentally puts her elbow in the soup. That's the next,

Andy: 47:57

maybe that's the subtext there is just like, I'll eat this, but I would not want any part of my body stuck in it because it's so horrifying.

Sean: 48:05

And then the sneeze, which is a bigger sneeze than would ordinarily happen for someone. Yes. that's when she starts to do the, the tinkle, tinkle, tinkle with the nose. I'm guessing they saw that and they were like, Oh, that's. That's really adorable. Let's, let's,

Andy: 48:20

Oh, you think they just, I feel like they knew they knew going in, but I'm saying

Sean: 48:24

they, I'm saying they called it on that one. Like they were like, first she does this, you know, first she rubs her head because that's the thing. Then she does this because that's the thing. And then when she's about to sneeze. You always, like, your nose gets upset, so we'll just have her nose move back and forth, and I think she does it

Andy: 48:41

earlier in the show. Marimba sound, or whatever. I think with some of the things flying around the room with Darren, I think she's doing her nose thing. I

Sean: 48:49

don't remember. It's been so long since I've seen it. Was this yesterday? Uh, no,

Andy: 48:53

this afternoon. Um, I believe the origin of that is that Elizabeth Montgomery Could do that with her nose, and that was why they sort of went in that direction. It would have

Sean: 49:02

been very difficult if she couldn't do that with her nose, and they just had to do it with... The so called special effects they used on that show. Here we go again. Like they just moved her back and forth so that her nose would look like it was going back and forth.

Andy: 49:14

I kind of appreciate, it's interesting that they did have so many things with like when she's trying to banish her mother. She does the full, like a more full classic spell and has it. With her hands. Yeah. Yeah. She does the whole thing and then I feel like eventually the show, you know, mostly just settled into she's just doing the nose for everything. Right.

Sean: 49:33

Um, then this woman loses the back of her dress, opens up too far, she gets a tray of food spilled on her, and then the front door opens, and that's when I thought the dress was going to blow off. I was like, they're really trying to, because the woman who played the hostess, who was, you know, Darren's fuck buddy before he met the

Andy: 49:56

witch. That is how she's described in the

Sean: 49:58

show. Stunningly beautiful woman, like just incredible looking and I was like, Oh, they're going to have her dress come off so that we can come back and see it next

Andy: 50:06

week. And you were, you were just like, when, when it didn't happen, you were just like, Oh, Jesus, this is when you turned on bewitched. I wrote a letter to NBC. This was not a giant of television. Sean said to no one.

Sean: 50:21

And then, you know, they have to decide, like, you know, you broke your promise. You said you weren't going to use witchcraft and you, you did.

Andy: 50:30

And this is what I find, found the most interesting about this. even, even today, all the, all the notes you would receive and all the hoops you have to jump through the, the It really fits in perfectly. Um, like, oh, it kind of suggests where it's going to go from now, the conflicts that are going to exist, you can see how these things would be repeated in every episode. all those things are great. but one thing that is interesting is, it doesn't resolve it, in terms of, And there doesn't even seem to be a reason that he forgives her other than the implied reason we've been talking about the whole time. And they're just like, yeah, I mean, I'll try. And I think she even says, yeah, maybe I can tape her off. She says

Sean: 51:16

that after she has the whole scene in the kitchen where she makes breakfast. And we all know how difficult it is to not spill everything out of the blender and get the coffee everywhere and, you know. Butter your face by

Andy: 51:30

accident. It's a real mess. It kind of, I wonder if at some point it was Samantha throwing the dinner party because they sort of, it felt like that was what had happened in their house,

Sean: 51:39

but anyway. Oh, you mean all the stuff that happened at the dinner party would have happened in

Andy: 51:43

their house? I wonder, because it seemed like there's so much crap around her kitchen that she has to clean up. but, uh, whatever the case, It's not really resolved, she just says, you know, he's sort of like, all right, well, you should, you shouldn't have done that stuff. And they kind of brush it under the carpet and move on

Sean: 52:00

from that. And like you said, she goes, maybe I can tape her off. Right. I'm not gonna, I'm not just going to quit right away. I'm going to still be myself. Right. And then the show ran for another eight years. So 234

Andy: 52:14

episodes. It's interesting that in both this one and in I Dream of Jeannie, especially in I Dream of Jeannie though, Jeannie was much more of a threat. to him, and he was in much more physical danger and in many more situations, whereas in this one, it's kind of Darren being befuddled over almost nothing in most of these situations.

Sean: 52:36

well, and in the, in this one, it was more about her and her relationship with Darren. Like she didn't want, she was just jealous and that's why she. went after this woman.

Andy: 52:45

Right. And that's why I think my, my feeling is in future episodes of Bewitched, it's more like Endora and, and, you know, and relatives of, of Samantha or twin sister or whoever just like coming in and causing a lot of havoc, uh, for Darren. you know, instead of Samantha being the prime antagonist. But I guess my, my point is what's interesting in both this and I Dream of Jeannie is if you look at it through the lens of It being a sort of female empowerment allegory, that it's, I guess what it's doing is it's touching on male anxiety at the time about a rising tide of feminism and being afraid of losing your power in the home, but that sort of raises the question to me of like, who was the demo? Was the demo primarily a femalist? you know, women, was it, it feels like it would have been popular with children, both the cartoon aspect of it. And because it's magic, um, kids love shows about fucking and they, kids love shows about that's exactly right. Sean. so I do wonder like what the male demo was at the time, or if they were at the time were just like, so crazy to think of a woman having power in this situation.

Sean: 53:56

Sure, you go in and watch television, I'm going to go in the other room and make myself an old fashioned with a straw.

Andy: 54:03

So, I don't know, just a thought.

Sean: 54:05

Larry, we've got to come up with some ads for those cigarettes. They don't sell themselves. They're all, everybody works in advertising and watches TV. And has

Andy: 54:12

cigarette campaigns.

Sean: 54:14

That's our show folks. There you have it, Bewitched. Boy, we really did a deep dive there. It was, I would say it was magical. Thank you so much for listening. We will be releasing episodes of this podcast on the first and third Sunday of each month. Going forward. So, maybe subscribe or at least mark your calendar every time a first or third Sunday comes up. That sounds more difficult, but, you know, it's up to you. Uh, follow us on social media at CopilotsTV. And if you're wondering where to watch the pilots that we're discussing, just check the show notes. We'll always have some indication of where you'll be able to find any of the pilots we watch. Even the ones that are hard to find. Be able to find them.

Andy: 54:59

Uh, nicely done, Sean. And, uh, do you like our show? Or do you love our show? Or do you hate our show? You know, any of those. It helps us out if you give us a five star review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. and you can write whatever you want. You can write something funny, positive, negative, whatever you want. Just give us five stars and you will get your pilot's wings, which is a fake thing. You are not going to get actual pilot's wings. Sorry, Sean. I know if you wanted

Sean: 55:25

I've been checking the mailbox every day

Andy: 55:28

I told you at the beginning, there are no pilot's wings. We're going to read a couple of reviews, uh, in each episode to express our gratitude. and beyond that, let us know what you think. Good, bad suggestions for pilots to cover. Um, you know, especially like the deep cut, the weird ones, the terrible ones. Or just the lost ones that people have forgotten about. Send your emails to copilotstv at gmail. com.

Sean: 55:53

I know what i'm gonna put in my email. You guys should do cheers.

Andy: 55:56

no, that's an obvious one, Sean. That's an obvious one.

Sean: 56:00

not to me

Andy: 56:00

Lost is an obvious one. Breaking bad. Yes, we know we're gonna get to breaking bad. Eventually.

Sean: 56:06

Okay

Andy: 56:07

Mr. Hobble Dob goes to town That's the one I want to cover Sean and Kevin don't but I thank you for joining us wheels No, how about how about the wings on fire?

Sean: 56:25

You're now free to move about the cabin.