11 - THE CROWN with Dana Schwartz from Noble Blood: Are the Royals the ultimate nepo babies?

TV Writer and Royals historian Dana Schwartz sits down with Andy and Sean to discuss the Netflix epic, The Crown. The 2016 Pilot episode is available on Netflix (LINK)

Note: This was recorded after Princess Catherine released a photoshopped photo of her with her family but before her diagnosis was made public.

Transcript

dana pilot: 0:00

Kate Middleton, I've been getting a lot of texts. from friends being like, so what's going on? Like, surely, you know, And the the truth is I I don't like I I mostly just know about history Uh, but I also know historically how the palace acts they're not good at PR is what, what's happening.

Andy: 0:18

And I apologize because I tried to get caught up and, and dig in and I still didn't understand

Sean: 0:23

Yeah, I mean, I, I, I, what I realized is I just have a weird blind spot for this stuff because I just have no idea and no, ultimately no interest. Like, I'm like, I, whatever happens with them is great, you

dana pilot: 0:36

so much healthier. they're just normal people. Uh, and it's very weird that we, uh, ascribe them this incredible symbolic importance that I actually think, is ultimately damaging. I mean, I'm gonna pull up a quote that I've been thinking a lot about by the great Hillary Mantel. have you ever read Wolf Hall?

Sean: 0:53

That was a TV show as well, right?

dana pilot: 0:55

Did they make a tea? Oh, yes, they did. I think with Mark Rylance. But she writes about, you know, King Henry VIII, Thomas Cromwell, of course. And she has this great quote, because she was like a pretty staunch anti monarchist for like an old fashioned storied historian. And I'm reading a quote now. She said, I used to think the interesting issue was whether we should have a monarchy or not. But now I think the question is rather like, should we have pandas or not? Our current Royal family doesn't have the difficulties in breeding that pandas do, but pandas and Royal persons alike are expensive to conserve and ill adapted to any modern environment. But aren't they interesting? Aren't they nice to look at? Some people find them endearing, some pity them for their precarious situation, everybody stares at them, and however airy the enclosure they inhabit, it's still a cage. Where it's like, not only is this institution sort of ill equipped to exist in a modern era, it's also the question of like, okay, is it actually a reasonable thing to ask individuals to subsume their entire identities into being mascots?

Andy: 1:55

Don't they have problems breeding also? is that, this is, this is Dana Schwartz, by the way. uh, our

dana pilot: 2:02

actually humiliated that I just opened with a, with a rant.

Sean: 2:07

Hey everybody, welcome to Co Pilots. I am Sean Conroy and I'm Andy Secunda. On this podcast, we talk about TV pilots, the first episodes of television shows. Sometimes pilots become long running series. Others don't make it past that first episode.

Andy: 2:23

We're going to talk about all of them. The great pilots, the bad pilots, weird pilots, the forgotten pilots. We are TV writers, but it should be noted that we are the dumbest TV writers, you know, so all of these are just our dumb opinions.

Sean: 2:35

So dumb.

Andy: 2:38

This is, a Dana Schwartz, a very good friend of mine. uh, I might say a genius? uh, incredibly talented. successful television writer. Worked on She Hulk. as a million things in development. She's on fire. and also the host of Noble Blood. a show detailing in fascinating form, the history of royalty across the world. Is That an accurate evaluation?

dana pilot: 3:05

is absolutely an accurate evaluation. And thank you for that very nice introduction. I am blushing. I don't like when people compliment me.

Andy: 3:13

I know.

Sean: 3:14

He introduces me. He goes, this is a guy I know, you know.

Andy: 3:17

here. I've been stuck with him. in preparation for this. episode, Uh, I I listened to your Noble Blood on Queen Elizabeth, uh, the second greatest regret

dana pilot: 3:28

that's a sad one.

Andy: 3:29

the one. about King Edward, the eighth, um,

dana pilot: 3:32

the abdication? I'm so sorry you had to listen to that much of my voice in a row.

Andy: 3:39

It's, a delight. Um, and they were both fascinating. So I encourage everybody to check those out if you're interested. In, uh, It's not really backstory on the crown. We're hoping to get more of that, uh, from Dana today. Um, but feel free to rant at will.

dana pilot: 3:53

I love a rant. Clearly,

Sean: 3:55

Andy, Andy, you were going to talk about Meghan Markle.

Andy: 3:58

Oh, sorry, Megan Markle. So, yeah, I don't know that I've told you, It's odd that in all the amount of time that we've talked, on the show that, uh, I created and Sean and I both worked on, uh, the now defunct sitcom, Love Incorporated on the now defunct, network, UPN, was it her first role? I believe, if not very early role for Meghan Markle was on Love Incorporated.

dana pilot: 4:23

Andy, we were talking about this television show and you didn't mention that Meghan Markle was on this show?

Andy: 4:27

It's, shocking that I wasn't leading with that.

Sean: 4:31

She, she was basically, I think like a U5, like she wasn't even somebody that we were like, Oh, this person is on. It was like, unnoticeable almost, you know?

Andy: 4:42

U5 is an under five for those not in the biz. It's an under five line. so you don't get your full actor fee. Um, yeah, am I wrong that she was, the subway token?

Sean: 4:53

That's what I remember too. I think I did like, a, an announcement on that episode, like a voiceover, you know, subway voiceover announcement. So Megan Markle and I have worked together.

Andy: 5:03

Yeah, I think you can bring that up when you run into her at your at your various social occasions that you share. so yeah. shout out to Megan Markle. Anytime you want to come on the show. Tell us what your favorite pilot is. today. We're talking to Dana Schwartz. about appropriately the crown, a incredibly successful maxi series. What are we calling it? It's uh, it's

dana pilot: 5:27

It's just a TV show, I think, at

Andy: 5:29

I guess it's just a full on TV

dana pilot: 5:30

It's just a TV show.

Sean: 5:32

I, I like that you invented the word maxi series.

Andy: 5:35

I don't think I did. I think that is something that, uh, Yeah. but, uh, I guess yeah, you know what, You're right. And I guess in my head, it's like a miniseries Because it feels like such a throwback to like, 70s, 80s, 90s, just like, this is the, the miniseries biopic. and we brought Dana on to, uh, talk to us about it, break it down as a pilot, and, share any other thoughts that she wants to about it. Um, I'm coming in fully blind To this show. I had seen, I I know who the Royals are. I had seen the Queen, which was, also written, uh, by Peter Morgan, the creator and writer of, The Crown. which he was Academy Award nominated for and, the last king of Scotland and Frost Nixon, which he wrote the play for. And the other Boylan girl, Bolin girl. Is

dana pilot: 6:28

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And

Andy: 6:31

Yes. and I did not have. really any background. It was one of those shows. If you're in a writer's room whatever the talking point of shows are that that everybody's watching, uh, will be a discussion point at the beginning of the day when you come into the writer's room and the crown was always one. It was just like All the Anglophiles would huddle up and discuss it. And I would just be like, I'm just not plugged into this particular thing. and so I would, I would emotionally disconnect as I would do many points during the day and throughout my life. uh, Sean, do you have any. any experience with, you would not watch the

Sean: 7:10

Well, first of all, let me just say, you're talking about the writers huddling up and talking about the Crown at the beginning of the day.

Andy: 7:16

Yes.

Sean: 7:16

Unless you're on a show like Love Inc. Where the entire first day of the week is taken up by a discussion of lost. And if you are like me and irritated by that, you emotionally disconnect and sulk in the corner of the room. So, uh,'cause you know it's going to mean. A couple of very late nights later in the week because we spent the entire day talking about polar bears and smoke monsters. you know, like I said, I, I realized when I was watching this, I have a weird blind spot to all of this stuff. And I just, I've never Found it. particularly appealing. So it was interesting to start watching the show and be like, I know I should know who each of these people are, but but I don't. So I'm going to wait and see, uh, how they get introduced and, and who's who.

dana pilot: 8:03

It is definitely a more, I feel like a very more sophisticated and like cosmopolitan thing to be like, I don't care about the royals because there is sort of this like, tabloid sensibility to them. It's like, they are just like these manufactured celebrities constructed as a distraction. Uh, so I, I, I think that's very, very cool and intellectual of you that you don't care about it at all.

Sean: 8:25

what I'm going for. So perfect.

Andy: 8:28

Would you say Dana that there's a big divide? I'm just gonna say as a headline spoiler alert. I'm kind of hooked now. I watched these two episodes. We're just going to, It's a great show. And I don't know how indicative that is of if I get into the, cause I, cause I love Noble Blood and I really like this show. And I was kind of like, I kind of want to watch the rest of this series. is that indicative of following the Royals as a whole?

dana pilot: 8:59

I don't think so. I, contrary to, like, the friends who are texting me about the royal family and, like, contrary to the rant I went on at the beginning of this episode, I actually don't really care about the present day royals very much. I just, like, I don't find it very interesting or relevant. I I do love, I mean, as, as the, you know, hundreds of episodes of my podcast can attest to, this idea that people are born into this position with no qualifications and given enormous power, and that often leads to, like, tragedy, and I find it very, you know, I find that dynamic very fascinating. I think The Crown as a television show is, is excellent, I mean, there's money, you can see it on the screen, it's, like, excellent acting, and it also captures this transition point of this, you know, life. 20th century institution trying to hold on to traditions in a changing world. I mean, that's, I think, something Peter Morgan is very interested in with the queen, the movie he made. And I think that the monarchy is fundamentally different after the death of

Dana: 10:04

Queen Elizabeth.

Andy: 10:05

It is sort of interesting, sort of comparing contrasting this with the queen, which is Queen Elizabeth really trying to and it's her dealing with the the death of Diana and how to handle it public perception wise and and counterpointing it with her at the beginning of, of her becoming queen. Do you feel like that was a shift that tone into, what was the phrase he used always deny?

dana pilot: 10:32

Oh, never complain, never explain. I didn't make it up. They, that's their sort of internal motto. Yeah.

Andy: 10:37

although I always will tell people that you, you came up with that. Um,

Sean: 10:41

it's like Maxi Series.

Andy: 10:43

That's right. Remember when I invented Maxi Series?

dana pilot: 10:46

It's brilliant.

Andy: 10:47

Um,

dana pilot: 10:49

uh, what's his name already invented an app. It's Quibi, but for maxiserieses. Longbite, slippy.

Andy: 10:56

Um, so I guess my, my question is, do you feel like she started this culture Of? Keep it contained. Or is that just that was just part of being a noble up till then,

dana pilot: 11:11

That it was absolutely part of being a noble up until then. I mean, for, for what centuries, there would be no access to the nobles. You would get one portrait and their profile printed on a coin. And I think the, the idea was that these are people truly anointed by God to lead as absolute rulers. So the, the distance between them and the common people was something that was explicitly manufactured and maintained. And I think what, what's very interesting is this. Direct conflict. Because the institution of the monarchy as something that requires that distance between uh, average people and the queen. Otherwise, you're like, well why am I doing this? Am I allowed to swear on this podcast? I don't know. But I'm like, why am I fucking bowing to some lady? The the artifice of it becomes incredibly obvious if you don't maintain that artificial distance and distinction. And yet in the 21st century and the 20th century when the crown takes place, this is an era when celebrities are becoming more accessible when becoming relatable has some

Dana: 12:20

uh,

dana pilot: 12:20

Currency to it, so to speak, and so I think it's, uh, are they maintaining their power as celebrities in which they need to be relatable in which they need to be individuals that people relate to and like, or are they maintaining their power as celebrities?

Dana: 12:37

1700s

dana pilot: 12:38

monarchs who are, you know, decked in, in, gilded, uh, furs and, and jewelry to maintain this idea that they are, uh, something entirely distant and, uh, holy. And, and they don't, they don't know.

Sean: 12:52

I think that's one of the reasons, I mean, certainly I am an intellectual, but it's also because of that, that I don't find this stuff really compelling now, because I love, I'm looking forward to listening to some of your podcasts because the old, you know. historical Royal stuff is fascinating to me. All the, you know, Eleanor of Aquitaine and Charlemagne and King Harry, you know, all that stuff is great, but now they are just. tabloid fodder. It's like this person made out with this person and it just doesn't feel particularly interesting in any way

dana pilot: 13:29

And Elinor of Aquitaine making out with, spoiler alert, possibly her uncle would cost the entire kingdom of France. I mean, like, that's the difference. Back when these people were, you know, vessels of God, their personal lives were the fate of nations. So that's what I find very interesting, where I'm like, you're born, guess what, from now on, everything you do is tied to the future of France.

Sean: 13:55

Right, not just like, look at the bathing suit she wore.

dana pilot: 13:58

Yeah.

Andy: 13:59

In some ways they're in a, a kind of slot that's like the most impossible level. of PR challenge in that they're the most famous people in the world. They are expected in the modern world to also be personable and engaged and sort of interesting, but then they are not allowed to have their own, you know, foibles and like, well, now I'm dating this person or now I'm whatever. It's like, Taylor Swift has, has built a lot of her, uh, notoriety, beyond her music obviously on, I'm dating this person and then I'm dating this person. And you're not allowed to do that as a royal, but you are expected to be fully engaged with the public at all times.

dana pilot: 14:50

Well, this is the problem, because as a good monarch in the 21st century, you need to be Unimpeachable. You need to not exist. You need to disappear entirely behind the, the regulations that are prescribed by like what the facade of a royal looks like, which is, you know, a neutral colored manicure always put together, never a hair out of place, perfectly thin, perfectly poised. You are a, an automaton. You are not a person. Um, because the problem is the monarchy. is, is in it for the long game. And if you're fun, and if you're engaging, and if you're a person, people have faults, and those faults can be criticized. I mean, think about sort of the way we cycle through women. I mean, like, Taylor Swift, sometimes public at large loves her, and sometimes it turns on her. You know, Jennifer Lawrence is so fun and relatable, and then it's, oh, she's so, like, annoying that she's, like, pretending to eat pizza or whatever. Individuals have, flaws that people can seize on. And the, the purpose of the monarchy is a self-maintaining machine. It uses individuals as fuel for the monarchy.

Andy: 15:59

And it's a great sci fi story. You're just pitching there.

dana pilot: 16:03

Oh, yeah. Right. Feeding it is, it's a, it's a machine. That's, that's the goal is the monarchy, not the happiness of, its, its participants

Andy: 16:11

think we found the genre that I was discussing in the writer's room in the mornings. Um, but whatever the case, both, uh, Dana and I are Swifties. And, Uh, we almost went to Vegas to, uh, see, uh, but I couldn't get tickets in time. So she, went without me. but whatever the case. Um, the thing that's interesting and you can compare and contrast again about our uh, royalty Taylor Swift versus uh, the actual royalty is that she can, you're right, there are ups and downs and points when the, when the public turns against her and whatever she can, she has the flexibility to respond and change her narrative and change how she's gonna, her image, change her image. As you know, be very flexible and fast on her feet, which is why I think she's she's so incredibly successful in response. And the Royals are kind of locked in because you're saying they're playing the long game. And so they have to like they have to maintain this position. My question to you is, do you think That's the way they should be playing it. Or should they be more flexible at this point?

dana pilot: 17:14

It's almost like you would, to, to extend that meta, metaphor, it's almost like you would be asking Taylor Swift not only to always have people like and support Taylor Swift, but that Taylor Swift individually is responsible for the position of pop star. Like, not only do you have to get people to like you, but you are the, the protecting what a pop star is in general, which is like a strange position to be in. I, I think that the If I had to guess that the, the British monarchy is self perpetuating to the extent that it makes money selling tea towels, that people tour Buckingham Palace, that it is a major tourist attraction. And I do find that there is a sort of national sense of civic pride, especially among older people with regards to what the monarchy represents. The sort of like stiff upper lip, keep calm and carry on mentality that I think is very British. If I had to guess, I, and I have no horse in this race because I do not pay taxes over there, the role of the English monarchy. will diminish sort of similarly to the way that the monarchy exists in somewhere like Denmark, where I would not be surprised if in 25 years, Buckingham Palace is a museum that people can publicly tour. That their residences are, uh, smaller and more private, and that the separation between their public lives and their private lives is more delineated. But, what do I know? These things are, are cyclical. But that is my sort of on the record prediction.

Sean: 18:48

We're gonna, we're gonna check back with you in 25 years to see if that's accurate.

Andy: 18:52

Sean is being very optimistic that he and I are going to be alive in 25 years. Both of you have seen me, eat, so you know that that's not happening. all right. Well, why don't we, on that note, on our future doom, why don't we start talking? about, uh, season one, episode one, season two. uh, entitled Wolferton splash, of the crown today's episode. and let's get into it.

Sean: 19:19

And, and by the way, people should know that we are going to do a Patreon episode where we watch through episode two after we record this one, right?

Andy: 19:27

the fabulous, uh, Dana Schwartz.

Sean: 19:29

Yes.

dana pilot: 19:30

Thank you for keeping me.

Sean: 19:32

okay. So let's just get into it. The first scene is the king, blood into the toilet. And that that felt a little on the nose to me. of like, here is the state of the British Empire. It is not doing well right now.

dana pilot: 19:47

Yeah, it's sort of like, this, the show is about Queen Elizabeth. It's like, spoiler alert, guess who's about to be queen?

Sean: 19:54

And of course, King George, the sixth played by the great Jared Harris, uh, who is a, Hollywood Nepo baby. And of course, George is also a Nepo baby. So I thought that was a nice, uh, nice

Andy: 20:07

the Royals are the ultimate nepo babies, aren't

dana pilot: 20:10

are the ultimate nepo babies, you've

Sean: 20:12

Yeah.

dana pilot: 20:12

it.

Sean: 20:13

and then we go in and Philip is renouncing his titles as, I don't, I didn't quite catch all of it, but it was something about speaking of Denmark. He was something in Denmark. And then he was something in Greece, I believe, like

dana pilot: 20:26

Yeah, he was a, a Prince of Denmark and Greece,

Dana: 20:29

like he was born, He is a descendant of both the, Greek and the Danish royal families. The Greek, monarchy had dissolved at this point so it was just a sort of hereditary title that they held. If I I'm, I'm, it's either his father or his grandfather was the brother of King Christian of Denmark, the younger brother. So he's from a cadet branch of the, The Danish royal family, but his mother was a great granddaughter of Queen Victoria. So he also has

dana pilot: 20:57

that connection going. He's the great, great granddaughter of Queen Victoria, which his wife is also a descendant. They're both

Dana: 21:05

like, you know, third or fourth cousins.

dana pilot: 21:07

Just,

Sean: 21:10

that was, uh,

Andy: 21:12

So that's, well, since you're touching on it, here's my other, uh, shame. I, I know when there are corners of the, the geek world that I, uh, am not acquainted with and Doctor Who is a giant blind spot even though I've seen it and I'm familiar with it. And I believe I've seen Matt Smith episodes. I, I have yet to dig in to the degree that I know I will someday. Um, but I have watched House of the Dragon. And it is fascinating to me how Matt Smith, he's one of those actors playing Philip, and that's correct. is one of those, actors that's just, everybody keeps casting him. as kind of the same part. It's like, he's more insane in House of the Dragon, but it's not that different from the tone of his

Sean: 22:01

He's an agent of agent of chaos. Yeah.

Andy: 22:04

Yeah. And he's sort of the sexy, you know, he's like. He's, he's sort of seductive and you know, pulling in. Well, that's another thing. Absolutely. And so I do, I like, I, I I have a feeling I know what the answer to this is gonna be from Dana Schwartz, uh, Anglophile, but, uh,

dana pilot: 22:22

on him? And the

Andy: 22:23

yes. of course, Because to me, and I look, I, don't know, uh, I'm uh, I'm a hetero idiot, uh, male. doesn't he kind of, he has got one of those weird big heads, he's, I can definitely see the charm on him. The guy is, you know, filled with, charisma, but.

Sean: 22:43

I look at him and I go, that guy looks weird to me. So I, I agree with you. I mean, I get, I get that he's, you know, he's an actor and whatever, but you

Andy: 22:53

We're obviously not the demo,

dana pilot: 22:55

with the exception of my incredibly conventionally handsome husband, I love a weird looking guy. They have pretty much always, cast, him and Tobias Menzies, who plays Philip in like the next round, are like my two biggest celebrity crushes. Like, they've really nailed it. Like, they're like, Dana, this is for you. I did watch Doctor Who, and I was a big Doctor Who fan, so I sort of had a little crush on Matt Smith. forever that I sort of held on to. And, and yeah, no, it, it, it totally works for me. He's objectively handsome. You're, you're both kind of wrong, actually.

Sean: 23:27

a very strange way

Dana: 23:29

It's

dana pilot: 23:29

Sometimes they, they design him strangely, but he is, he is a handsome guy.

Andy: 23:33

The other thing that's sort of fascinating is that this is the origin story, uh, as I think I'm going to refer to it from now on, because whenever you see someone in a bigger movie and you're like, why this person? And it's because you missed their origin story if they were in this indie or they were in this thing. And I've known for a while the crown is going to be a source. for that. of a lot of origin stories, Vanessa Kirby being the biggest one. And I was like, this lady is very pretty. Why is, why is she the person? And it's obviously from, I assume from this, right? There was no other bigger thing. Um,

dana pilot: 24:11

Vanessa Kirby moment. Yep.

Andy: 24:15

already, huge before this, but then when you get to the House of the Dragon, I was kind of just like, Huh, this is an odd part for this guy. And I'm like, oh no, he's been doing this. This is, This is his slot. When you watch this.

Sean: 24:31

So King George does, I don't know if he's like knighting him. I assume that's what happens when you touch somebody with a sword like that. He's making him some sort of order of the guard or order of the British empire, whatever it is. And Philip is now a whole hearted member of the, of the British royalty. Yeah.

Andy: 24:48

in that moment because he seemed so out of it

Sean: 24:51

He was going to chop his head off.

Andy: 24:54

He's going to stab him or something. Even when he put the pin in, I was like, no, no, no.

Sean: 24:58

don't know. Um.

Andy: 25:01

my own, my own, personal fear of when I am knighted. I was, I was, always afraid that

dana pilot: 25:05

they don't want the, you don't want a sword, sword cutting your head

Dana: 25:08

It is very close to your neck. These seem important spots.

Andy: 25:11

Ironically, when I was a kid, uh, might as well slow this podcast down even more. I, even though not being an anglophile, I became fixated on the idea of, could I fool my way into being knighted? knighted? And my, uh, art teacher, uh, Janet, who I, who I had a great deal of affection for was English. And so I would ask her, well, what would I have to do? And she said, well, you would have to be recommended by, people, British citizens. a certain amount. You would have to do something of note for it. She had this list of things that she knew what the things Were I was like, I feel like I could pull this off. off.

dana pilot: 25:50

I'm making another tangent. I was at a birthday party with a friend and Uh, I was, I was talking to a few other screenwriters and this guy who's a screenwriter who's British. I was like talking to him. I was asking, you know, where are you from? Where's your family from? And he was just sort of dropping all these like really fancy things. And I was just like, wait, wait, wait. So like, who are you? And he said the most iconic phrase I've ever heard, which is, my father was a bit, or my grandfather was a bit of a duke,

Andy: 26:17

a bit of a Duke. I love it,

dana pilot: 26:19

which is just the perfect thing. And I wish I could say it. I do have, uh, as a as someone who came from very boring upper middle class suburbia, I have that internal, uh, self loathing of wishing I had an English title

Andy: 26:32

Had you, have you toyed with the idea of, Dana and I've, I've been discussing when our, when our ships, come in, what are the, well, what are the things to spend it on? Dana, I got to say, throw a little money at a title. I've always wanted to

dana pilot: 26:47

I. It would have been so easy for me. I needed to move to England and marry, uh, aristocrat. And instead I married a comedian.

Sean: 26:56

Ouch.

Andy: 26:57

of a, You're part of a different kind of royalty. um, but can't you just throw money and get a title or is

dana pilot: 27:04

No, that's not how it works anymore.

Andy: 27:06

Oh, they stopped it. Oh,

Sean: 27:08

That's how you get a, that's how you get a star named after you, but I

dana pilot: 27:12

Yeah.

Sean: 27:12

works.

dana pilot: 27:13

I think the system is kind of, is kind of slowing down and you sort of have to be literally grandfathered in at this point.

Andy: 27:19

When, when did it shut

dana pilot: 27:22

I, I don't think it officially shut down. I just don't know if there's like titles left and I don't think like the system is really, uh, in, in full swing at the moment.

Dana: 27:33

Right.

dana pilot: 27:34

I don't know, actually. I would be interested in looking into it.

Andy: 27:37

If you guys could still call me parents that couldn't, I'd appreciate it.

Sean: 27:39

Sir Secunda KCB.

Andy: 27:42

Um,

Sean: 27:44

so now we're outside the room where he almost got his head chopped off and he's with, and Elizabeth has been peeking into the room the whole time. She obviously has a vested interest in what goes on with him and he comes out and they have this little conversation. Which, uh, he says, I've signed myself away. And she says, or one, the greatest prize on earth, which, uh, was a

Andy: 28:06

I've had a lot of relationship conversations like that.

Sean: 28:08

Yeah. Yeah. Um, and then they, then they kiss very, uh, passionately and he's off to his stag party. which that, that I would like to see a spinoff, which is like the Philip version of the hangover. Like what happened in that night that,

dana pilot: 28:23

can probably tell you right now, not, not good things,

Sean: 28:27

yes.

Andy: 28:28

So was he the rascal that they are implying that he was? but he, they, we sort of don't see it fully. He's kind of mostly a noble person in

dana pilot: 28:40

Yeah, I would actually say that the television show The Crown is very deferential and polite to the royals. And I would actually say offers a very sympathetic portrayal. Anyone who's sort of mad at it, I actually think it's, it's such an empathetic portrayal, it probably extended the life of the monarchy by two decades, because it makes you be like, wow, they really sacrificed a lot for this and really puts you in the, you know, on the team of Queen Elizabeth. He is sort of famous in his youth for philandering and for very out of touch and very racist, uh, comments that they sort of, um, Poke, not fun at, but like, they allude to, but I don't think

Dana: 29:19

actually get them as bad as he actually was.

Andy: 29:23

They do touch on it in episode two, uh, which we'll get to. And, uh, and I wasn't sure of just like. I can't tell if they're saying he's ignorant, uh, or if he's racist. I mean, not that racism isn't ignorance, but it's, you know, just like whether it's, There's a malevolence behind it, or whether it's just like, I'm an idiot.

dana pilot: 29:44

Let's say it's like, old man racism. Like, I don't think he's, his sister's married Nazis, I think they were, um, malevolent racists. I think he, I would like to believe his is a more, uh, ignorant based form of discrimination, but you never know. Who knows?

Andy: 30:01

Oh, the question I had was the royal that abdicated

dana pilot: 30:05

Yep. George's

Andy: 30:07

to, to, um, there was some implication That he was, had Nazi sympathies.

dana pilot: 30:12

That is, uh, more than an implication. That is a true fact that I can, I can, this podcast will be a thousand years long, but I can absolutely tell you that. So he, uh, After their father died, became, uh, King Edward VIII, and he wanted to marry this woman named Wallis Simpson, who was a twice divorced, uh, American, and her second husband was still alive, which, by the laws of the church, meant that they were still married, so that a marriage would not be possible if he was the head of the Church of England. And also for a number of personality reasons, he would not really be a good fit, so he abdicated, his sort of more dutiful brother, uh, became King George VI, who was the father of Elizabeth and Margaret, yadda yadda, he abdicated, went to live in France, married Wallis Simpson, and then, as, evidence sort of came to light, he, uh, got his nose bent out of shape a little bit because he abdicated but he still didn't feel like he was being treated in the way that, uh, he should be. I mean the the royal family is not a very warm and fuzzy family. Um, they felt this profound sting, uh, this betrayal, this choosing personal pleasure over duty, uh, and so he. As some say, and I would say the evidence sort of pointed it, he and Wallace, um, maintained a correspondence and perhaps friendship with Adolf Hitler. They went to visit him when he became chancellor. There are several photographs of them sort of shaking hands. doing the Nazi salute, which is, uh, not very good at all. And the sort of idea was that there was a possibility that if Hitler conquered England, he would reinstate him as, as

Andy: 31:55

snap. Cause this was my other question was going to be. Is this all, like, just dumb Famous people like, they're not aware of what's going on. and then once the war starts, they went, Ooh, I really made it. that was on the wrong side there. If he was planning for the overthrow of England

dana pilot: 32:14

They, they are dumb. I want that on the record. They're, and also they're dumb, but Hitler was very, um, good at knowing what people wanted and wanted to hear. And he treated them like monarchs. He like gave them the thing that they wanted at that time, which was like international recognition and respect. And so he, they were dumb and bad and racist. And also he manipulated them by exploiting their weaknesses.

Andy: 32:41

But I can't believe that part of that was the idea that they would overthrow England.

dana pilot: 32:47

That's that is speculation that that I'm but that is sort of an implication of an understanding that people sort of agree on. This was their visit to Germany was still sort of early days of the war back before it was like, you know, RAF rah rah, you know, go go rule Britannia. But that is sort of this idea that they had felt very way sided. And they were like, Well, maybe maybe there's a universe where I could become king again.

Andy: 33:15

Right,

dana pilot: 33:15

chap could help.

Andy: 33:17

right. you know what? Uh, I'm glad he abdicated. That's, that's my

Sean: 33:20

If he had become king, he could have knighted Hitler, Sir Adolf, you know,

Andy: 33:24

But, but he also could have chopped his head off. so maybe that would have solved a lot of problems. of problems.

Sean: 33:30

okay. so we're in, uh, the king's chamber. I'm going to call it a chamber, not a room. We're in the king's chamber and his, his butlers or his footmen are dressing him. It's not going well. I can't tell if it's because he's just gained some weight. So his tuxedo doesn't fit anymore, which is why I always struggle with my tuxedo. But, uh, he's getting dressed for the wedding day. He has a bit of a temper tantrum and somebody comes in and does a dirty limerick and he really enjoys that. That calms him right down. So it's nice to see a guy who loves, who loves an occasion to pull out. There was an old man from Nantucket,

Andy: 34:04

Ben Miles as Peter Townsend, who's like his consigliere. What is that position? Dana, do you know? I

dana pilot: 34:11

Yeah, it's sort of like, um, in Chief. You know, just like the guy who manages things, like a valet. If you watched, uh, Downton Abbey, it sort of seems like he's a royal valet.

Dana: 34:22

But

Andy: 34:23

Yeah.

Dana: 34:23

bit, you know, it's a, it's a formal position.

Sean: 34:25

then we go to the wedding, uh, Churchill arriving at the wedding and he's the last one there. And everybody's kind of annoyed about that, except the people who are there for the wedding. they all stand up for him. Unlike the way they did for nobody stood for Um, and then, uh, we go through the wedding vows and Elizabeth vows to obey Philip. And that causes a big, a bit of a big ruckus guess Churchill is the one who says something about it. Right.

dana pilot: 34:56

I like it because it just is a metaphorical representation of the larger problems of this, entire show, which is like, how do you balance being a person and a monarch? And with Elizabeth in this case, it's like a wife in the 1950s marrying a husband would promise to obey. And also this is the woman who is next in line to be the Queen of

Dana: 35:19

of England. So

Andy: 35:20

What do you read into that, aspect of her adding obey back? Is that like, I understand I'm going to be the queen, but I'm still going to be your wife. Is that

dana pilot: 35:30

Yeah, I mean, this is, the beginning of the show, right? So from a TV standpoint, what we're getting is she's about to go on a journey. And at this point, I think she optimistically believes that she will not have to fully subsume her individual identity, you know, as a wife and woman and person into, being the queen. I think that is her holding on to her, existence as, uh, Elizabeth, wife of this guy.

Andy: 35:54

It is, it is interesting though, that that, uh, points out the, in some ways it's romantic, but it's also the datedness datedness of like, I'm still going to be my own person, your wife.

dana pilot: 36:06

Yeah,

Andy: 36:06

which is What it was at that time. Um, and since you raise it, As a pilot, and we're obviously going to talk about this a lot. Sean, did you enjoy this? Because my, the thing I was going to say is, for me, being someone who is relatively ignorant about this history, other than the broad strokes, I think that did a fantastic job of leading the, you know, both the, the stands and the, the ignorant through it and just hooking you immediately. What was your experience, Sean? I, I

Sean: 36:36

I feel the same way. Like you know, it's obviously such a broad, you know, there's lots and lots of characters in this and some of them, I didn't quite understand who they were, but I got What they were there for and then some I was like, okay, this is this person like as soon as Churchill gets out of the car in front of the church. You're like, oh, that's that's Churchill, you know, but

Andy: 37:01

I said, that's John Lithgow. I didn't I was like, oh, he's also supposed to be Churchill. John Luthgow!

Sean: 37:12

was right before World According to Garp. Yeah.

dana pilot: 37:15

started on Suits with Elizabeth, that's why he got invited.

Andy: 37:19

Oh, that's nice.

Sean: 37:21

but you know, because I get very frustrated sometimes with pilots when there's a huge cast and nobody makes an impression, but certainly everybody was drawn individually in this in a way that that resonated. So, Yeah, I loved it. I loved lots of things about it, you know?

dana pilot: 37:38

this is just an excellent, beautiful show. I mean, I think some episodes are better than others, but like, overall, I'm like, What

Dana: 37:43

a what a beautiful, interesting, well written television

Sean: 37:46

Well, even the way it's shot is fantastic. You know, the way it looks is, Gorgeous.

Andy: 37:52

It's royal. It really feels

Sean: 37:55

real. Yeah. then we're back at the, the photo session after the wedding. They're taking pictures of everybody. We meet, uh, his mother who is apparently a hun nun of some sort. um,

Dana: 38:07

um,

dana pilot: 38:07

a little, uh, Cuckoo. Bananas. Uh, that's more politically correct than saying crazy, right?

Andy: 38:14

Yeah. that's right.

Sean: 38:14

Cuckoo is very accepted still.

dana pilot: 38:17

Yeah, No, she just, you know, erratic behavior. I think she was diagnosed as a, as a paranoid schizophrenist and I think some of those sort of more religious delusions, played into that. I don't know exactly what her specific delusions were, but like, yeah, some, mental health challenges.

Andy: 38:35

I believe my son is going to be married to the queen of England. That was her crazy thought. That was her delusion.

Sean: 38:44

Yes. Yes. Just have a

Andy: 38:46

is

Sean: 38:47

And, and in this scene, King, uh, George gives Elizabeth a movie camera. So she's gonna, she's gonna record stuff, which they then used to great effect for a montage that takes us into the ahead, Andy.

Andy: 39:00

I love that detail. I assume it's based on, on reality. uh, that's also very humanizing that she would, the most photographed woman in the world would just be taking her own, films of her interesting journeys. They also throw in the little, as an example of like bringing the, uh, the casual interested people in. I was like, is this the guy, is this the King's Speech guy. I think this is the King's Speech guy. And then they have him slightly stutter at one point. I was like, yeah, it's King's Speech. Yeah, this is, this is Colin Firth. He's doing Colin Firth's part. should have just

dana pilot: 39:34

It's

Andy: 39:34

I would do, I mean, I guess they were scaling down the age a little bit. It is odd that they didn't.

Sean: 39:40

Lithgow said he wouldn't do it if Firth was on the show. okay. So we go through the montage. We go four years into the future. Now it's 1951 and we are in Malta. Where everybody is rowing their boats as fast as they can to celebrate, uh, Phillips. I guess he got a promotion in the Navy or something like that. And

dana pilot: 39:59

Good for him.

Andy: 40:00

Yeah. Won't be able to use it, but, uh, nice.

dana pilot: 40:05

He was promoted to Lieutenant Commander, I think

Sean: 40:07

yeah, yeah.

Dana: 40:09

Commander.

Sean: 40:10

No, he was, he was still lieutenant commander. Like it was, Yeah. but we cut back to London where they're operating on the King. The King is having all sorts of problems. They're pulling out gigantic pieces of them. I was convinced he was, they were like weighing, It was like an autopsy. Like they were weighing his organs and pulling out this and pulling out that. And I was convinced he was going to be dead at that point, which shows you how much I know about, about that whole history. But

Andy: 40:39

You can be like, Ooh, I wonder what's gonna happen.

Sean: 40:42

yes, I literally put in, in my notes, I wrote down, he has to be dead at this. point.

dana pilot: 40:47

No, just, just, they're pulling out chunks to keep him alive.

Sean: 40:51

Right. and, and we know he's alive because then we see him watching, uh, Churchill get elected prime minister again after, uh, an interval. And it's always fascinating when a politician, uh, loses an election and then runs again a number of years later and gets elected again. I mean, that's always kind of, uh, uh, an interesting situation. Something,

dana pilot: 41:18

not the individuals. Which I, I actually think in an interesting way, it, it is a benefit of the royal family that they have this tradition of a, if you're going to have sort of a cult of personality, it's someone who's apolitical, where I do think they view their prime minister historically or have a tradition of it more as just like an administrator because of that system.

Andy: 41:42

Uh, since we've been talking,

dana pilot: 41:43

think would benefit from in our country.

Sean: 41:46

something has to change.

Andy: 41:48

since we're talking about, uh, Lithgow and Churchill a lot, um, what is everyone's take on the portrayal? Because I remember that being a big point of discussion at the time.

dana pilot: 41:59

Oh, people were just mad that an American was playing, playing Churchill. You know what, we had an Irish guy play Lincoln, so who, who gives a shit?

Andy: 42:08

Uh, that is 100 percent true. And certainly they've, they're getting in our actor pool enough that they got no complaints. But it is interesting that the, as the almost quintessential English person outside of Queen Queen Elizabeth that, they did hire. Lithgow. What I mean, and I guess, Dana, you'd probably be the one who would be best to to evaluate. It felt to me Like he wasn't, Churchill is an interesting person who's been portrayed by all these, these different great actors, you know, Gary Oldman and all these people. And I always kind of feel like he is a person. Is such a, almost a caricature that when they do the rendition of him, it's like, you're kind of not nailing it Cause you're not being broad enough. enough.

dana pilot: 42:57

yeah, it's sort of hard to do a, a Churchill that's not like an SNL impression.

Andy: 43:03

Yeah.

Sean: 43:04

It, It it seems to me like he was such a gigantic personality, but also was conscious of that. And so sort of emphasized some of his, his weirdness so that, you know, any of these people who try to play him focus on one aspect or another, and it's hard to capture the whole gamut of stuff that he was known for and played around with and, and did,

dana pilot: 43:28

I mean, it's sort of an interesting counterpoint to the monarchy, right? He's such a personality. and he goes through these, these ebbs and flows of, of being beloved and being criticized, mostly beloved, but it is that interesting thing where he, he's very aware of, of wrapping himself in his own mythology. He doesn't have the benefit of the, literal or metaphorical crown, but he, he creates it for himself with his personality.

Dana: 43:50

I

Andy: 43:51

as well as should. He led Britain, you know, through their darkest hour.

Sean: 43:55

He,

dana pilot: 43:56

a great phrase. Did you come up with that?

Andy: 43:58

I did. I invented that maxiseries. I got a lot of things

Sean: 44:02

just for the taste of it also was you, right?

Andy: 44:05

That's right.

Sean: 44:07

Okay. Uh, so Churchill is now consulting with his doctor. His blood pressure is very high, but he's really just wants the doctor to read this report and tell him what's really going on. So the doctor looks through it and this is, you were talking before about how fond these people were of not giving out any information. So, the guy reads through the report and it says something about, Structural changes and that's that's not saying the stuff. They don't want to say Which again, I, I don't totally follow these things sometimes, but I was like, they have to be talking about cancer, right? Like, that's what they're, that's what they're referring to. And it, it happened a few more times where they said, like, when Churchill is like, I have to be there for her. Like, nobody says what they really are saying.

Andy: 44:59

Which I like because, you know, if you don't get it immediately, you, you get it a few minutes later. And I, I appreciate that kind of faith that a series has. Also, of course, you know, most people that watching do know exactly what they're talking about, but Uh,

Sean: 45:14

Most people are more up to date than, than I am. is

Andy: 45:18

um,

dana pilot: 45:18

I think it's a well written series in that it's not like, I mean, it's, you know, it's easy for a layperson to understand, but it's not like spoon feeding you with like big short style diagrams of who everyone is. Uh, but yeah, I do think that moment of like the doctor is, is the perfect 30 seconds that anyone who's wondering like what's going on with Kate Middleton should watch. Like that is how the Royal family operates. They will see. Obfuscate and use as little information as possible to maintain the aura of, of full power and anonymity and basically depersonhood.

Sean: 45:53

And, and the doctor even says, who is this man? Like he, up till that point, I wasn't sure if he knew who it was while he was reading through it, but obviously there's nothing written down there to say who it was.

Andy: 46:04

But that's the, the biggest headline, to add to what, you're both saying they both refute everything, but also, The king himself has not been told that he has cancer. That to me was the craziest thing and the, and the, and evidence of what Dana was saying of like that these people are kept like veals is that Winston Churchill knows he has cancer and the king doesn't. Just blew my mind.

Sean: 46:32

But is that, is that because of the royal thing or is that partially just because that's how things were done back then?

Andy: 46:39

What they the show presents is that it's, Oh, I don't, I, I mean, the show presents that it's basically all these people around him managing him and managing his temperament and keeping the focus not on that, but on him as a, you know, a healthy symbol. So they don't even tell the guy that he has cancer.

dana pilot: 46:57

Yeah, I kind of see it as like a, it's like a 1940s starlet or something that they would just not, they're like, you're not the person, you're the product.

Andy: 47:05

Right. which I guess they are. That is the reality. They are our product. and again, I think that's another huge strength of this pilot, and from what I've seen this show. In presenting, like, what does it feel like when you are put in that position? Like, how do you lead a, as normal a life as you can possibly pull off. And that is the interesting aspect of Philip for whatever his flaws are. you know, in real life, in terms of the character He's such a human person. and he's so himself and he's been stuck in this position. And how does that person handle it? it's one of the effective things of this pilot, that it sets up that conflict immediately of like, how is this guy going to handle this very structured, you know, you can't be yourself situation. Yeah. may I ask, uh, Dana for a brief overview on why Elizabeth ended up with him?

dana pilot: 48:01

Oh, she chose him. She fell in love with him. He, she met him when she was a teenager. He was a little older than her and she, she, just liked him. Yeah. I mean, that's, that's really what it was. And I think her family kind of didn't think that he was. Good enough for her, even though he came from all these, extended European royal families because he didn't, uh, he was kind of a nobody in England, even though his uncle was Lord Mountbatten, who was like the Viceroy of India, uh, but comparatively he, he didn't really have much in ways of money and status in England. He was a foreigner, but she, she sort of had her, her sights set on him. That's how she ended up with him.

Sean: 48:40

At least it's not like he played a subway clerk on Love, Inc., you know? that network didn't even last another season.

dana pilot: 48:48

true,

Andy: 48:48

surprise that

dana pilot: 48:49

the UPN network.

Andy: 48:52

surprise that in of, in and of itself, that mark on a record didn't kill the whole marriage.

Sean: 48:57

She's worked for UPN! What what is that? What is UPN?

Andy: 49:02

Girlfriends! Come on! Heh, heh, heh, heh, heh, heh. Homeboys in outer space, you rube.

Sean: 49:11

Um, so then we see the king getting made up before his meeting with Churchill, because he wants to appear healthy and alive and, uh, meets with Churchill to congratulate him. and mentions to Churchill that He only has one lung at this point. which I thought was interesting because again, to your point that you guys were talking about, it's like, Churchill knows more than he does at this point. You know, he's saying I only have one lung, but it's going great and I'm doing well. And Churchill is like, Oh, he's not, doing well.

Andy: 49:44

Maybe, The most perfect part for Jared Harris that has ever been.

dana pilot: 49:51

He was

Andy: 49:51

Just this Wounded, sort of benevolent father figure. that's the other thing that's so heartbreaking about it is he's, so good at having us get invested in him immediately. but also the performances. around him, you know, Vanessa Kirby and, uh, Claire Foy. Uh, again, another person who I was just like, Oh, this is where Claire Foy comes from. just so amazing. And like, uh, all all this emotion on their faces about their reactions to his state his slowly deteriorating state. And it really is just so heartbreaking. but Jared Harris. Just like trying to maintain this position and this, you know, undignified, having to yack up blood every 10 minutes is just impressive.

Sean: 50:40

Although I will say he kept the, kerchiefs he spit the blood into in a, in a gorgeous box, like just a very, you know, elaborate, elegant box. So that was kind of, that was

Andy: 50:52

Yeah. I got to get a, a blood hanky box like that. That's really nice.

dana pilot: 50:56

be prepared.

Andy: 50:57

Yeah.

Sean: 50:58

we see Churchill moving into, I, I, this is one thing I'm like, Oh, that's definitely that. And then I'm like, I have no idea, but I'm assuming he was moving into 10 Downing street and, and with his wife and he's telling his wife that the King has lung cancer. And she says, he's, he's dying. and he says, we're all dying. He's just being very practical about what's going on with with the King.

Andy: 51:21

His wife, uh, played by Harriet Walter, I was playing Clemmer Churchill, who I couldn't, I was trying to figure out what my claim to fame on her was, and most recently, even though she's, yeah, Succession. Yeah. it's the mother on Succession.

Sean: 51:32

Right.

Andy: 51:33

It's a great, such, such a great psycho mother character.

Sean: 51:37

Yeah. She's fantastic. so then, We go to the house that, that Elizabeth and Philip are moving into. And this is, again, this is why I really dig this pilot because it tells us so much about their relationship without saying, this is what's going on in our relationship because he is. overseeing house being rearranged and set up. and she has to go off to Buckingham palace for meetings with important people. And he even thought this was really funny that, you know, yes, he's re he's making sure the furniture goes in the right place and all that stuff. But he's also having issues with the electrical system. Like a man would always be in charge of the electrical system too. So it just, you know, it's like those two are trying to figure out how they're supposed to fulfill their traditional roles of man and wife while she's obviously so much more important than he is.

dana pilot: 52:35

It's a tricky situation. And it's harder, you know, for a man in the fifties, I'm sure. Mmm,

Andy: 52:43

that wouldn't be a problem for me. me.

Sean: 52:45

so she's having lunch with her mother and princess Margaret. And this is where we find out about this. Whatever's going on between Margaret and Peter, which clearly is going to be an issue going forward.

dana pilot: 52:59

foreshadowing.

Andy: 53:01

that I locked into the most. It's just

dana pilot: 53:04

They have real chemistry. I love those actors together.

Andy: 53:07

That's fantastic. It's

dana pilot: 53:08

this is why Vanessa Kirby gets cast in everything, cause you watch her in this and you're like, yes, a star.

Andy: 53:13

A hundred percent Absolutely. So magnetic. And also it's really what's impressive about both her and Claire Foy, who, uh, she won an Emmy and, uncountable nominations. Um, but what's impressive about both of them is. They are playing royals and obviously this is kind of a scandalous kind of, you know, you're really getting into the nitty gritty. and Vanessa Kirby's allowed to show a little bit more emotion, but it is all restrained. It's all sort of under the surface. so it's really impressive from Vanessa Kirby, but particularly for Claire Foy. Um, How do you feel about the casting of Claire, of Claire Foy is Elizabeth, Dana? because it's funny for different characters, they're scaling up their attractiveness. And for some, it's like, I love that it for the kid, for, Prince Charles. It's just like, no, no, No, no. just just pick a kid that looks

Sean: 54:03

We want the kid with The big ears.

dana pilot: 54:05

big ears. I honestly felt like I don't mind when they scale up the attractiveness except, you know, spoiler alert in the last season, the actor they got for Charles. It's like Dominic West as I think that's his

Sean: 54:17

McNulty. These are for you, McNulty.

dana pilot: 54:20

I that one is unforgivable to me because they're just different types. I mean, he's a great actor, but just physically I was like actually a gas and I couldn't get past it. I love Claire Foy as Elizabeth. I mean, I think the power of the series is like, we don't know Elizabeth as an individual, as a, as a private person. And so I think there was a lot of freedom in, her portrayal. Like, I don't think it's an impression. I think it's more

Dana: 54:46

of an evocation and I think she does a, does a wonderful job.

Andy: 54:50

Yeah. It is interesting that, Elizabeth, the, primary defining characteristic is her ability to maintain composure slash contain her emotions, um, as an actor, and I think it feels like the choice that Claire Foy made is I have these insane, giant, eyes. I'm going to just let everything play on my eyes and nowhere else. And,

Dana: 55:22

role

dana pilot: 55:23

because Margaret had a more visible personality. The public felt like they knew Margaret a little more, whereas I don't think anyone sort of feels like they knew Elizabeth, let alone a young Elizabeth.

Andy: 55:36

That's true. I mean, I think you could argue this either way, that you could say that that's what makes the Elizabeth part harder because she has to communicate without the, the information. She has to make those choices and, and communicate past the, uh,

Sean: 55:49

I completely disagree with that. I'm just trying to, I'm just trying to,

Andy: 55:54

she's just trying to mix it up.

Sean: 55:56

Yeah. no, I mean, I, that was one of the things that really hit me while I was watching this was like, holy shit, she's saying so much without even moving her face in any way, you know, as they were having her. Emote on camera. It was, it was incredible. uh, okay. So then we're in the scene with the doctor telling the King that he has lung cancer. Uh, which is such a wild, it's just a weird moment of like, how long do I have? Well, it could be a few years. It could be a couple of months. We don't know.

Andy: 56:30

then he, sort of leans on probably pretty brief, probably a couple of months.

Sean: 56:35

right.

dana pilot: 56:35

a couple months. Yeah.

Andy: 56:36

It's like, it always starts with the lie.

Sean: 56:39

trying to ease him in gently.

Andy: 56:40

right, Yeah.

Sean: 56:42

him that maybe, maybe Winston Churchill knows, that he's, this, this sick, but nobody else knows. and then we go off, we're off to, I don't know where they went down Nabi or somewhere for Christmas time. and

dana pilot: 56:54

is what it

Sean: 56:55

Balmoral. Oh, Scotland. right? Yeah. And, uh, the choir comes to sing for him and he is in that moment, obviously processing his mortality and that this is the last time he's going to do this. And he's very, he's very overwhelmed. I

Andy: 57:14

mean, if, uh, if would have told me you'd be watching a show about the Royals and you'd be tearing up, I would have been like, no, I won't. It's just like, that scene is heartbreaking.

dana pilot: 57:26

and he has this moment with Margaret, his daughter, who was like, kind of always the favorite daughter. You know, Elizabeth was the one who sort of was duty bound. And Margaret was the one who had more personality. And that bonding moment between them is so sweet.

Andy: 57:39

Oh my gosh, it's so, so sweet and so upsetting. and that really is like, that's the, the masterwork of Vanessa Kirby of just like. Her feelings for her father and reading it on her face and him realizing, you know, what the position he's in You Um, also so brilliant to have all the Carolers sort of be around him. And that was when he's wearing the crown, right?

Sean: 58:04

That was the scene. Yeah. Yeah. Where he finally, he finally, finally, finally got his crown, you know, after all those years,

Andy: 58:13

that's what it's all about.

Sean: 58:14

That's where the show got its name from that scene. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Andy: 58:17

And it also just sort of makes you feel like, since both, both the King's Speech and the Crown present him this way, that he was a solid dude, that he was just a really sweet person and always tried to do his best, even though he was a little out of his depth at the beginning.

dana pilot: 58:32

That's my understanding, like a very dedicated father, a very, you know, loving husband, um, and a, and a good, good guy, capital G, good guy, um, in his private life. I have not heard anything to the contrary.

Sean: 58:46

Crack duck hunter.

Andy: 58:48

That'd Be a very boring Noble blood episode then. and I think it's so, so much of, of this kind of biopic pilot is where are you starting it? And I just feel like Peter Morgan just, it was so smart to start it, you know, before Elizabeth has to face being queen. It's, you get to know her as a person, you get to see her interact with Philip, but they've already been together. So that's already in motion, but you, you, you, it's these snippets are more pregnant with meaning than it would have been if they were just having them spell things out. In this, you know, the usual television overexpositional way. and then just watching the family react to this, this slow descent of, of the patriarch of their family and the country, but who's also a sweet person is just such effective drama.

dana pilot: 59:42

I think you can tell that Peter Morgan came from playwriting. Like, I think some of the, the writing in this feels, Very dramatic in the, in the classical sense and I, I really respond to that. I like it a lot.

Andy: 59:55

I think you're right. Dialogue wise, it really is so solid in that theatrical way, but it is um, and this is, I think, indicative of, of his history in film also. it's very cinematic in a way. that is really impressive and like, leaves room for, believe Steven Daldry directed this, it's really leaves room for the, the audience. performances and the faces just to reveal The The reactions. I would love

dana pilot: 1:00:23

take,

Andy: 1:00:24

it. I think I might have it somewhere I got to

dana pilot: 1:00:26

can I take this opportunity to tell you my favorite Stephen daldry fact? I don't even know how or when I came up with this, when I discovered this. But, so he's a, he's a gay man. Uh, you know, he had a long relationship with a man. And then

Dana: 1:00:40

outing

Andy: 1:00:41

here

dana pilot: 1:00:41

No, no, I think this is, this is public knowledge. After 9

Sean: 1:00:46

very close to the vest. They

Andy: 1:00:48

Oh, they sure do. Oh, that is classic. that is just like, them.

dana pilot: 1:00:53

yeah, uh, after 9 11, 9 11 happens And he's like, I want to start a family and he marries a woman and has a, has a child and he still is like, I'm gay, but I'm just like married to a woman.

Andy: 1:01:07

Whoa.

dana pilot: 1:01:08

And the same thing happened to, not the gay part, but the 9 11 part happened to, um, Paul Bettany. 9 11 happened and he's like, you know what? I'm in love with, with Jennifer, uh, Connelly and

Andy: 1:01:20

Yeah, that one, That story drives me crazy, because that's just like, and then I realized, I was in love with the most beautiful woman in the world!

dana pilot: 1:01:27

Yeah.

Andy: 1:01:28

hit me! I was like, Yeah. It hit me too.

dana pilot: 1:01:31

Well, you needed to run after her and you didn't. You missed your opportunity.

Sean: 1:01:36

I just hope there's another nine 11 sometime soon.

dana pilot: 1:01:40

Isn't it crazy though

Andy: 1:01:41

Sean, stop saying that on our podcast.

Sean: 1:01:44

It's a, it's a light

dana pilot: 1:01:45

Isn't it? Isn't it crazy though that at least two British, British people, uh, had 9 11 happen and they're like, I better get married to a woman.

Sean: 1:01:54

Yeah.

Andy: 1:01:55

Yeah. Big deal.

Sean: 1:02:00

Whatever.

Andy: 1:02:02

Um, how's that turning out for, uh, oh, this is, I shouldn't dig into this. I guess when you were saying like, and so he just said, I'm going to marry a woman. even though I'm gay. And I'm like, it didn't seem to work out that well for Leonard Bernstein's wife. Or did it work out well for Leonard Bernstein's wife? He had a, She had a family. She was loved. Maybe I'm really wrong. What do I know?

Dana: 1:02:24

Love is complicated.

Andy: 1:02:25

Oh, so true, Dana. So

Sean: 1:02:27

Holy shit. I've never heard truer words on this podcast. okay. So now we're in the driveway and good old Prince Charles is learning to, he's not a Prince yet, but he's learning to ride a bike. which is, I feel like they keep mentioning his name, like from my point of view, it was like they were mentioning Charles because he, to me, was the most identifiable of the Royals. And they were sort of checking in like, this guy is somebody, you know, you know,

Andy: 1:02:56

Right.

Dana: 1:02:57

they're just sort of anchoring you.

Sean: 1:02:58

Right. but she gets summoned to see the King in his, I guess it's his throne room. It's like a study, but it's really where he has a, he has a chair. So kind of a throne room. Yeah. and he, he's coughing and he tells her that he wants her to do the commonwealth tour in his stead, which, uh, is a big deal. That she's going to stand in for him.

dana pilot: 1:03:22

Um, Kevin in the chat just pointed out that he was just surprised that they didn't make a bigger deal of Elizabeth marrying for love. And I want to say it's like, yes, she chose Philip, but it was still, he was still a member of like six royal families and a great, great grandson of Queen Victoria, where it's like, she's marrying for love in the sense that she chose this guy. But he's still very much was, even if he was like, maybe not our favorite choice for you within the echelon of people who could marry a queen.

Sean: 1:03:51

I mean, he, he just, he rides around on dragons, so it's fine. You know,

Andy: 1:03:55

exactly. I I mean, how much more Royal can you get?

Sean: 1:03:58

not much. so, Oh, and I think this is the scene also where she asks. king to take Philip duck hunting with him.

Dana: 1:04:06

Yeah,

dana pilot: 1:04:06

male

Dana: 1:04:07

bonding Tom.

Sean: 1:04:08

Right.

Andy: 1:04:08

I do love the hunting scenes. even though I've never hunted, I really enjoy the, the quaintness of it.

dana pilot: 1:04:15

That, honestly, most of my anglophilia just comes from the aesthetics. Like, I love the, the country house, rich aristocratic aesthetic of like, get me some tartan and a barber jacket. Let me just like go walking in galoshes out on the moors.

Andy: 1:04:30

Dana, you're going to have all that someday.

dana pilot: 1:04:32

Ugh, I can't wait.

Andy: 1:04:33

I'm going to be living in the shed out back.

dana pilot: 1:04:37

I have an architect coming. We're remodeling our house. I'll make, I'll make it the, our ADU, the Andy room.

Andy: 1:04:42

Oh, that'd be great.

dana pilot: 1:04:43

You're welcome.

Andy: 1:04:44

like English theme built with kind of a stone and, uh.

dana pilot: 1:04:48

what if I do, what if I tell Ian that I want our back cottage to sort of be like English cottagecore chic? I think he might go for that.

Andy: 1:04:56

I love it. I think it's going to raise the property values for angle files anyway.

Sean: 1:05:00

so far we've had six guests on the podcast and Andy is living with five of them after this.

Andy: 1:05:05

look, I got to make backup plans, Sean,

Dana: 1:05:07

you're cheating on me,

dana pilot: 1:05:09

me?

Andy: 1:05:10

Knock it off.

Sean: 1:05:13

So then we, you know, the King is obviously very sick. He's, this is one of the scenes where we see lots of bloody rags. Then he wakes up Philip in bed and Philip is, is naked much to the King's delight and, enjoyment. I actually like that. because I feel like you see a little bit of, it's the same thing that makes him want to hear the dirty limericks. Like, he's just like, I want to have fun, you know, ha ha. I woke you up. You're freezing cold and naked in bed. Um,

Andy: 1:05:40

sure if there was, because they seemed so close, I wasn't sure if that was just like, Oh, is there something going on? Is there something happened in the background or are they just English?

dana pilot: 1:05:51

I

Dana: 1:05:51

think they're just English,

Andy: 1:05:52

but Yeah, you do never know.

Sean: 1:05:55

um,

Andy: 1:05:56

frat boy ish. Yeah,

Sean: 1:06:01

is what would have happened on my rugby team in college. you know, like get up fucker, you know, okay. So then they, they go out hunting, uh, and, and the king has a big conversation with. Philip about his, his duty well, he says she is, she is the job. She is the essence of your duty. So he just wants to make sure Philip understands his role in all this.

Andy: 1:06:26

Yeah. And he has this, that scene to me again was another one that hit me so hard. And it really is, uh, the, the masterfulness of Peter Morgan. in terms of the dialogue of communicating this thing that we as audience members should not relate to like this is about your your job as privileged member where everything is taken care of for you and paid for you and your life is is one of glamour the weight of the responsibility that permeates every moment of your life. And she's like, he's like, just like, she is the job, loving her protecting her, doing this for her, doing this for me. There may be no greater act of patriotism and then he adds or love. And Uh, whatever, the different perspectives are today or at the time about the Royals, it's just such an amazing moment that frames what their perspective was of like this, This is the tether that holds the country together.

dana pilot: 1:07:30

I mean, that's, that's, the great irony, right, of, of The Crown, where it is this glamorous position where you are on a pedestal, and you get all this attention and, and, you know, whatever, but it is

Dana: 1:07:42

is ultimately an act of sacrifice and duty,

Andy: 1:07:46

yeah,

Dana: 1:07:46

minds as well, which it is.

Andy: 1:07:48

And how do you communicate that in a few lines? This is the other thing, the economy of the dialogue, going back to the theatrical skill, is you communicated all that in a few lines. And of course the performances. Um, that's the other thing that I really love about each character's arc. Like you start with Philip being completely, you know, the rascal that we all know Matt Smith is. I mean, come on. And then, you know, he has that moment at the end and there's sort of a tension. because I don't know if, George is going to kind of come down on him or if he's going to, what, you know, what the tone is going to be, it might be like, Hey, you got to get your shit in gear, but he does it

Sean: 1:08:25

I thought. He was going to

Andy: 1:08:26

way. Yeah. Or, you know, finish the job that he did. He started on his knighthood and could, you know, stab him in the throat. but he does it in a kind way that makes it even more sad. that He's going to die. Um, really impressive.

Sean: 1:08:42

And this is where we find out that the episode is Wolferton Splash because that's where they go hunting at the end. And this is another reason I think it's fun to be an anglophile. Because they have so many fun names for places. You know, Wolferton Splash. It's like, I forget the other two places. they weren't going to go, but it was like, we're not going to go to Flippant squash puddle or some, some, something, like that. And another one, you know, 11 drops or something. And,

dana pilot: 1:09:10

Flipper Tin on Mud Splash.

Andy: 1:09:15

Hey Dane, you gotta come up with a great name for your, for the shed. in the back of the house.

Sean: 1:09:21

and I I

Andy: 1:09:22

Place Manor.

Sean: 1:09:25

so that, I think that was, that was the end of the episode, right? Isn't that, isn't that where we go

Andy: 1:09:29

Yeah, that's, that's where it ends. and, We tried to evaluate at the end, how effective it was. It was frickin effective for me. I like rolled right into the second episode. I was so, I was kind of surprised. Because I really thought like, Alright, well, this is, this is a huge one. People love this. Dana's the perfect guest for it. We gotta, we gotta do this. And I was completely on board and want to watch the rest of the series.

dana pilot: 1:09:57

it's extremely my shit. I was sold before this, like, even before I pressed play. I was like, yeah, the, the, crown is entirely for me. And, but it, it, I liked it, it matched my expectations.

Andy: 1:10:10

And do you feel like it built over the course of the seasons? you know, it's like one thing that's effective so far, and we're going to talk about episode two in a, in a sort of live commentary style thing on our Patreon with Dana, but. Like even from episode one, to episode two, it really does feel like it keeps effectively building. Does, Do You think it does that in the other seasons?

dana pilot: 1:10:31

You know, I do think it is a very episodic show. I think season one and two do build. I think they, they recast every two seasons with older actors and that sort of, um, breaks the momentum. I think it is a stronger episodic show than it is a stronger, like, I don't know, something like Breaking Bad or, you know, that like grows as it goes, uh, I I think maybe if you view it on, like, each two season run is its own kind of arc. That's where it's strongest.

Andy: 1:11:02

That's a great way to frame it Cause that almost sort of prepares you to kind of think of it as like little or not little giant movies.

dana pilot: 1:11:09

You know what it's kind of like? It's like Doctor Who. we're we're recasting, character, new actors, and running back

Andy: 1:11:18

We're going to have to bring it back for the Matt Smith, Dr. Who,

Sean: 1:11:20

that. Yeah.

Andy: 1:11:22

Uh, Dana, thank you so much, for joining us. Um,

dana pilot: 1:11:29

you haven't heard my stomach rumbling on mic.

Sean: 1:11:32

No, um, but I can't wait to see how things turn out in Andy's little residence. uh, blippy, grime hole.

dana pilot: 1:11:41

Well, now that I know you're, you're double dipping, I don't know.

Andy: 1:11:45

Sean, you blew it for me. This was my backup my career is going to do a tailspin any day now. And the other place I go isn't going to have near the elegance that Dana Schwartz would build in her backyard.

Dana: 1:11:58

Oh, imagine it's going to be so well designed.

Andy: 1:12:01

I'm gonna have to work Ian instead, uh, her husband. well, thank you so much for joining us. This has been a delight. This was everything that I hoped for in terms of the background and everything. It's really kind of, a primer for royalty idiots this episode. Um, so thank you so much.

Sean: 1:12:17

I, I I call them royalty intellectuals.

Andy: 1:12:20

fair enough. uh, please check out Nobleblood. is there anything else? She's, she's selling a bunch of shows, so. keep an eye on in the near future, you may see all of them on television.

dana pilot: 1:12:31

Yeah. Keep an eye out for, for shows on television. Uh, buy my books. I don't know. Just go to your local bookstore and see if they have any of them.

Andy: 1:12:39

you want to name check them.

dana pilot: 1:12:40

Uh, anatomy, a love story and the sequel is immortality. A love story.

Andy: 1:12:45

thank you so much, for joining us, Dana.

dana pilot: 1:12:47

Oh my God. I've been begging to come on this podcast for weeks.

Andy: 1:12:51

And you did it.

dana pilot: 1:12:53

I

Andy: 1:12:53

one of the,

dana pilot: 1:12:54

have Andy. I have.

Andy: 1:12:55

it is true. and I was like, you know, it's a favor to us, right? I try and stay quiet about that. So again, if you want to hear more, please, check out our Patreon. patreon. com forward slash copilots TV. all of our other information is there too. Please send us, you know, emails, comments, give us five stars and you will get your pilots wings.

Sean: 1:13:20

My wings have still not come. I gave us five

Andy: 1:13:23

No, yeah, I told you Sean, they're not, it's a fake thing. You just get imaginary pilot's wings. and Dana will be joining us for a live commentary on episode two of the crown, where I will be pestering her with even more annoying questions. please join us there. And to everyone, your plane won't be taking off for another, uh, 40 minutes. Uh, Thank you for your patience.