7 - DEAR JOHN with Superfan Ronnie Adrian

Comedian Ronnie Adrian joins Andy and Sean to discuss his favorite show, Dear John. You can watch the 1988 pilot for free on YouTube (Link).

Ronnie is @bonesadrian

Transcript

Ronnie: 0:00

and I saw, that you, uh, did an episode on some, I just saw the word Poochinski, I don't know, whatever, whatever, right? So just randomly at this baby shower, like, uh, the husband, he was talking to somebody, blah, and he was like, yeah, blah, blah, blah, and I heard him say the word Poochinski, and I went, What he was like, have you heard and I was like no But I just randomly saw this thing and he kind of seems like yes that you should watch it It's like you won't regret spending the 22 minutes watching about my whatever and he was telling me how you know He was like, it basically is bad and I was like, but it was so interesting cuz I was like, that's so weird I just saw this thing which color and then just randomly like right.

Sean: 0:40

Yeah

Andy: 0:41

Ronnie, it's We're weirdly, you know, that guy clearly he was A a copilot

Ronnie: 0:47

Oh, my Okay. The word's

Sean: 0:52

getting out Andy! We're doing it! Hey everybody, welcome to CoPilots. I am Sean Conroy and I'm Andy Secunda. On this podcast, we talk about TV pilots, the first episodes of television shows. Sometimes pilots become long running series. Others don't make it past that first episode.

Andy: 1:11

We're going to talk about all of them. The great pilots, the bad pilots, weird pilots, the forgotten pilots. We are TV writers, but it should be noted that we are the dumbest TV writers, you know, so all of these are just our dumb opinions.

Sean: 1:23

So dumb.

Andy: 1:27

Well, Ronnie, get it started.

Ronnie: 1:29

No. We it

Sean: 1:31

always leave it to the guests to kick

Ronnie: 1:32

Hello, everybody. I'm the guest on CoPilots today. Introducing your host, Sean Conroy and Andy Secunda.

Andy: 1:39

Thank you for having Yeah,

Sean: 1:40

It's so great to be here.

Ronnie: 1:42

be here.

Sean: 1:43

We really appreciate it.

Ronnie: 1:44

Hey,

Sean: 1:45

we have a guest today, in person. The great Ronnie Adrian is here. Uh, so Ronnie, tell us why we're here.

Andy: 1:54

thank you for having us.

Ronnie: 1:56

um You know, you ask about pilots and even as somebody who like, you know, works in this industry and who writes you have a sense of what people consider to be a good pilot or what you can watch and sort of, so even when you ask me, you know, those sort of things come to my mind where it's like, all right, what's good pilots that people like that you have kind of looked at as a model of a good pilot where you're like, I don't know, like community or da da da, like all these sort of things that you sort of look to when you are, especially when you're first starting trying to be like, What's a good pilot that's going to get me a job, you know? And, and so those things come to my mind when you

Sean: 2:32

you would tear the page off the pilot and hand it in. as your own work?

Ronnie: 2:35

I would do. And just hope that whoever's reading doesn't

Sean: 2:38

wrote a show called Cheers.

Andy: 2:40

This is weird.

Ronnie: 2:41

just hope that they don't know. It's like, yeah, this thing is just shoot me, but they don't know that they don't know that. Um, And so it's interesting because that's what comes to my mind but I was like, well, I'm not going to say any of those, like, so, and then so you're having

Sean: 2:56

Which is the right?

Andy: 2:58

No, that's great. And that's honestly, that was what I was nudging you about. honestly, the subtext is, because, You know, people have already suggested, hey, Heat Vision and Jack, or, you know, Cheers, or Breaking Bad, it's like, lost. the, car,

Ronnie: 3:12

Mm hmm.

Andy: 3:12

My mother, the car. is always the first thing people, uh, request. Um, uh, which was, that was the one we were going to force on you if you didn't come up with

Ronnie: 3:19

Oh, okay.

Andy: 3:20

Um, but, uh, But yeah, it's like, yeah, we definitely are going to do those. And certainly those are the ones that our producer, Kevin, uh, to his, to his credit want us to do because of the ones that everybody knows are going to be more interested in. and are probably better for the life of this show. I'm just always more interested in. Yeah. But what's the, what's the off kilter one? What's the weird one? What's the one that's specific to your interest? And this is where I want to bring us to, which is when we were texting and I was, I was, uh, harassing, uh, Ronnie into saying, well, what's a different one? What's, a better one? what, what, you got any others? Nope. What else? Yeah, And then Ronnie did throw out at the end. He gave me a list. And he also threw out at the end. Also, if you wanted me to do a, quote, black show. Just ask and I'll get some different uh, options. I won't be offended. uh, shrug emoji. And um, I just love, First of all, this was very gracious of you because the truth is we're going to have a lot of shows. Uh, we do continue to do the podcast, which is still in question.

Sean: 4:22

Andy's still trying to torpedo it Every

Ronnie: 4:24

Every time.

Sean: 4:25

getting obscure shows involved.

Andy: 4:27

like Nobody's listening to this, I don't know why! Um, But, uh, but we are gonna have shows that are either a very diverse, you know, cast or, or, you know, perspective. And we're gonna want Different voices other than the two old white guys that speak for that are the, well, one old white guy, one, uh, uh, what are you, um, I don't define myself I let's see, Um, so we appreciate that, that offer. But it is funny that one of the ones you came, came up with, uh, that being said, what's really the top of your list? Was the topic of today's, uh, episode, which is, uh, the Judd Hirsch multi camera sitcom, Dear John, which one might argue, in TV history, is possibly the whitest show that ever was.

Ronnie: 5:21

I mean, you could argue, I, I, I think there's more, I think there's more white shows that take the crown, but ultimately This show is the pilot. There's a black guy in the pilot. That's 11. There's a black guy in the But

Sean: 5:33

I just also, I just also want to underline that the show you chose that we will be discussing the pilot of today is Dear John, which blew my mind when we got that.

Andy: 5:46

Right. Did I not say Dear John?

Sean: 5:48

No, you did. You did. I feel like it's worth, No, no, no. Because if I'm listening to the show. I'm like. I didn't hear that right. They're talking about something

Andy: 5:54

Right. Couldn't have been T or John.

Ronnie: 5:57

I mean, and also, when they say you chose, I gave like nine options. So, I gave nine options for them to decide which one. So, even though it was like the first one on a list of You

Andy: 6:09

did say, Maybe I misunderstood the phraseology. Either of the first Two. And Dear John was in the first two.

Ronnie: 6:16

that is true. That is

Andy: 6:17

true. But

Ronnie: 6:18

But I also was like, you know, but anyone that you want, I, it was

Sean: 6:22

We always like to put our guests on the Aha!

Andy: 6:24

You chose the one that we forced you to choose whatever the case. I was delighted. Just to think of the conversation the three of us would have about it. Um, and, um, yeah, I mean, it's, I mean, where to even, I guess here's, here's really where we should begin. I was just gonna ask Ronnie, like. Why Dear

Ronnie: 6:45

Yeah, exactly. Um, it's interesting because I can watch something and think something is good, but I don't hold on to stuff in a way that it's like, Oh, I'm so passionate about this and I'll talk to anybody who will hear me when it comes to this pilot or this thing or it moves me in this way. But I can recognize something that is good or something that I like so even with this particular one It was interesting because it's just one that I just had remembered Right, and I remembered it because it was one of those shows list a lot of the list has you know shows on it that If you grew up without cable and at a time when, you know, you didn't have many TV options and you watch basically whatever your TV can make out with your antenna and. I'm assuming I'm not talking to, I'm assuming people who are listening to this are not 19 year old Gen, Gen Zers or whatnot. Like, sure, you know, sure. But I feel like I have to preface everything. But, you know, when it's like back then and it's only the channels are like Fox, NBC, or like CBS. And maybe one more, I'm forgetting or something. ABC, ABC, right? Um, and then maybe PBS, PBS as well, uh, depending. But. When you're going through these sort of thing when you're going through these channels and you're like, well Which one has something that I can stop on? Uhhuh. Okay, judge show. No this thing. No, I'm a child and this type of thing And so this particular show I remember Because it was sort of one of those sort of spring break, maybe, um, after Christmas sort of things were like, I'm at home. My mom's at work. I'm, I'm the only one at home or whatnot. And I'm just, it's early and I'm just. Turn this is in the daytime. This is in the daytime. This is in the daytime.

Andy: 8:36

this in repeats

Ronnie: 8:38

Yeah, this is in repeat. So like, I don't know when this, I don't know what year this show came out.

Andy: 8:42

out, ran from 88 to 92.

Ronnie: 8:43

Yeah.

Andy: 8:44

So what year is

Sean: 8:44

I was assuming that you would be, it would have been too little to watch

Ronnie: 8:48

I, I was not watching it while it was on air. It was one of those things that at this point it's on repeat. And so I'm just at home. and I'm turning the channel and I just find one of the channels that basically has the best picture and it has like actual TV on. It's not like a judge show or something or and it was the first thing that hooked me is the Is the theme song and it's like and that thing I remember so even when I saw it I went I did the theme song in my mind I remember Clear As Day and if anybody's listened to it, you would know like what it's like what it sounds like And so that's just something that has just stuck with me. And then it was one of those things that I watched it. And then I was like, I can't wait to watch the next episode

Sean: 9:37

you watched one episode because you were home by yourself And that led you down the garden

Andy: 9:42

path, And then you said, I can't wait to watch the next

Ronnie: 9:45

Right. And then so you sort of like wake up or you remember to watch the next episode of it the next day. And then at a certain point you have to go back to school and now you can't watch it anymore.

Andy: 9:55

so you got the theme song and I, I completely agree. I think this is, this is one of those theme songs. That, probably the most effective, particularly this kind of TV show, the most effective theme songs you can make are the ones that become an earworm, and you can't get out your head and keep people, because there's a constant advertisement in your head.

Sean: 10:12

your head. And I, And I, And I will just say, and I could be totally wrong about this, Kevin, can you look this up? The theme song, I think,

Andy: 10:18

it was written by the guy, so this sort of op cracks it open into the the show was redeveloped as became more and more popular. Uh, in, in network television over time from a British format that was also called Dear John. And then when this was made and was then imported back to Britain, it was called Dear John USA. Um, but it was written by, uh, John Sullivan, the guy who, uh, wrote the theme song for the original and created the original show. He was actually the original writer, which I thought was kind of cool that it's like you would think this would be. something that's like, Oh, get one of our, you know, ringer

Sean: 10:59

songwriters, songwriters

Andy: 11:01

to write, you know, a WKRP in Cincinnati, the like perfect, you know, TV theme show, but no, it was just. I guess probably because they had the lower budgets in in Britain and you were given more creative control. He was like, um, let me see if I can get the accent right. I want to write this theme song!

Ronnie: 11:18

theme

Sean: 11:19

song! We don't think that's a good one's

Andy: 11:22

going to tell

Sean: 11:24

me no.

Ronnie: 11:25

We could get the Beatles. our perfect

Andy: 11:28

Those are perfect

Ronnie: 11:30

Honestly, I

Andy: 11:31

English accents.

Ronnie: 11:33

was back in London. anyway,

Andy: 11:38

he wrote the theme song. and uh, and I, I agree with you a hundred percent. so you got the theme song. And I guess, I'm curious, what else is like, When you say, I gotta watch it again, what is, what are the main elements or feeling that is drawing you?

Ronnie: 11:52

I, I think, truly, I was kind of a little, I was, I was a happy person, but I think I was also kind of a little, I could be, I could be a little sad kid sometimes. So I think there was, like, the theme song is kind of somber, so it kind of puts you in a mood, and then you get

Sean: 12:09

It's actually deeply

Ronnie: 12:11

it's

Andy: 12:11

It's true. And I don't know how long they repeated the credits, but in the credits, it says, uh, it like shows the The whole note? note. and I don't know if you guys

Sean: 12:21

saw it, I did see It it's

Andy: 12:23

it it says In the note it says, I hope that in time you will understand why I had to leave. The love that I had for you has

Ronnie: 12:29

died. Yeah,

Andy: 12:33

credits!

Sean: 12:33

but, but not just died, died many

Ronnie: 12:35

years ago. Right.

Sean: 12:36

Like, So he's sitting there going, Oh my God, this last six years. has been a lie. You know, it's fucking awful.

Andy: 12:44

Ronnie Adrian is watching this going like,

Ronnie: 12:46

I identify with This it was one of those things that you just kind of want to see what happens to this guy. And I think that was something that, Kind of, uh, um, you know, stuck with me as well. Um, but I, in the realm, I think it's. Interesting to know and maybe that's, you know, and I think you can say this about a lot of stuff but I think in that era when you don't have like you have today where pretty much people can just watch whatever they want and they can just live in their own subset of watching whatever they want and you can sort of choose the genre of things and that's it, you know, then You sort of didn't have that option as much. So you basically just watch what was on TV. and so in that regard, you can see a lot of shows like, I don't know, golden girls or like empty nest or something like, or night quarter, all these sorts of shows that. You know, nowadays, I don't think people even bat an eye because it just doesn't even seem like something that they would be interested in as opposed to back then where it's like, well, if you want to watch TV, you have to watch something and you kind of choosing kind of like, oh, that's not that bad. So it wasn't as if I didn't have an affinity for shows that didn't really feel like they spoke to me as a black child growing up in the south. But because you sort of get this idea, it's it's like looking out. Towards something that feels like so unconnected to you that it is like wow what's going on in these people's world Like that's because it's not my world. So what like how do these people kind of get through this thing? And also it's I want to say it's Kind of funny. It's just like, it's just so interesting. It's like, it's like National Geographic. It's like you're watching something that is like, how do people, how do people sort of act or live? So like,

Andy: 14:39

constructing this show, I think to a certain degree, and I think this is the the knock against, uh, TV of that era, and has slowly, uh, hopefully turned the tide a little bit, that it's such a, uh, uh, sort of, a monocular vision of just like, this is a Relatively, uh, you know, uh, uh, well established kind of upper middle class white people's perspective in, or in really in New York, primarily, um, and that to you is like the thing of like, Oh, what an interesting, fantastical universe we're looking

Ronnie: 15:14

like, what is, when, what is this old great wizard? What is, But

Sean: 15:19

I, but I also think it's interesting, and I think this is, this is another part of this reality, is. That there was a part of it that spoke to you, that you were like, this is, you know, this is a guy who's sad, I feel sad sometimes, this is interesting to me, you know?

Andy: 15:33

yeah, I totally agree with you, Sean. it's like, I honestly was like, intrigued of like, oh, I gotta hear why Ronnie likes this show, I'm already interested in what you've been saying. And then, once I started watching it, I was kind of like Had my knives out and now you're already turning me around. on it again, I'm like. You know what? What you're saying is true. Even though as a uh, uh, you know, I would say a comedy professional. I like to, I like to

Ronnie: 16:00

Mm-Hmm. at this point. Nobody says that except you though.

Sean: 16:02

I think you can, you can say professional. I'm fine with that part. of

Andy: 16:06

that. I see. So just someone working in a field is what you're saying. All Right. Fair enough. Um, that, uh, that it's sort of, I have a lot of complaints about the, the comedy craftsmanship of this pilot.

Ronnie: 16:19

Mm-Hmm.

Andy: 16:20

But I agree with you. I think there is an element. Of a melancholy, which is very unusual for this sitcom of this time, that is, that does touch something.

Ronnie: 16:30

Yeah.

Andy: 16:31

It's very

Sean: 16:32

interesting. And that's the starting point for the whole show. Yeah. I, it also makes me think about, you know, you're talking about how anybody can watch whatever they want now, and you don't have to watch what other people watch, and whatever, and that makes me realize that I think what you're saying is, the entertainment industrial complex is tricking us all into thinking that we have. Unlimited choice when in fact, our lives are much worse now than they were all those years ago. But anyway,

Andy: 16:55

um, um Sean's always banging his political drum on

Ronnie: 16:59

I don't know if that's exactly what I

Andy: 17:00

don't know

Ronnie: 17:01

I mean, I'm pretty sure there's That's some Venn diagram of what I was saying and what you

Sean: 17:05

It's all distraction.

Ronnie: 17:08

Which is, that is true. That is true. That is true. And it's interesting because then you have to grip with the terms of being like, and I'm also trying to add to the distraction. So. As a

Sean: 17:18

As a

Ronnie: 17:19

As a professional. I won't say comedy. I won't limit myself. But, um, as a professional, I am also trying to add to the distraction.

Andy: 17:26

the distraction. Yeah. So, I

Sean: 17:27

Yeah. So, I don't know if people are aware, but we're talking about the show Dear John, uh, sitcom, uh,

Andy: 17:34

Do they even have single cameras

Ronnie: 17:44

So did they even have single cams back

Andy: 17:46

They had them. I mean, dear John in Britain was a single cam. It's just they didn't really have them in half hour format in America. in any, in any wide way.

Ronnie: 17:57

they kept

Andy: 17:59

To do it. as like, no, but next, next, because they knew it was the, hipper way to go. Like, yeah, no, we're going, we're going to switch. This is the year. And then they would invariably not pick up any of the single cams.

Sean: 18:12

But here's my, here's my question, and we'll get into this pilot episode in a second, you have watched more episodes than just the pilot. You have. I don't know, have you watched more than just the

Andy: 18:23

I think, over time, and I think, generally speaking, whenever I would watch it at the time live, because I'm older than Ronnie, I would go, all right, I'll watch a little bit of this. All right, that's it, I'm out. But

Sean: 18:37

question is, does most of the show take place in that

Ronnie: 18:42

room? no, they switch it up and like, even cause even as a reminder, I even watched the second episode and it's interesting um, because even when the second episode, They're in the room. It's a different room than the pilot room. And I was like, okay, that's

Sean: 18:58

Bigger budget. We got picked

Ronnie: 18:59

right. Exactly. Well, actually the room seems worse. So

Andy: 19:03

Oh, that's an interesting note.

Ronnie: 19:05

they're like, oh, But this seems like something that's more doable to the thing. So it's clearly like, cool. We shot the pilot. Oh, it looks like we're gonna get picked up. We got to sort of like do this thing all over again. So they have to They broke it

Andy: 19:16

down the set. They didn't have the set. But it is interesting they made it smaller and I wonder if that's because They built the original set with the one side gag in mind of all the people that have to leave. the room. And then they were like, well, it's intimate. We don't want this giant room for these five, six people. Right.

Ronnie: 19:32

And then so they did that, and then they went basically from that room to, uh, little. I guess you would say like a bar or something, sort of like a bar set or whatever, do that thing. And then they ended up leaving and going to, um, one of the guys, like the nerdiest guy, his apartment, Ralph. They went to Ralph's apartment and then they just spent the rest of the episode at his apartment, basically. So,

Andy: 19:59

Basically.

Ronnie: 20:00

so the thing that I thought was also interesting, especially about the season, I would have to watch more episodes to sort of see if that is The trend, uh, but the idea that they don't really do. B story sort of aspects of any stuff. It's just like, John is here now. John goes here and wherever John's at, that's where the story is. Right? Um, we don't, and maybe as it goes on and we get to know the characters where maybe we'll get to spend some time with the other ones. I don't necessarily remember or Gary. this

Sean: 20:29

is the guy from Taxi. Why would we want to watch anybody else do

Andy: 20:32

anything I mean, the truth is it probably was set up that way. And I was just listening to an interview with Mary Lou Hener. Talking about when he came into taxi, it was already the Judd Hirsch show because he was a quote, big star. uh, it wasn't a quote, big star, He was a big star at the time, He was a big star on Broadway. He was a big star in in movies and TV, uh, ordinary people and, you know, so forth. And so when he went into taxi, it was like built around him. And she was talking about well, you know, what, uh, how generous he was in terms of letting it be an ensemble, which of course. is the right move for taxi because everybody in that show became a ringer, more or less, um, a comedy ringer. And then, Not a bell,

Sean: 21:11

not a bell ringer.

Andy: 21:14

And then in this show, it's even more clearly like this is all built on the fact that we have Judd Hirsch. Mm-Hmm.So, what do we got for Judd Hirsch? so there's definitely gonna be even more like, no, don't, don't pay any attention to anybody else on this show.

Sean: 21:30

Hey, look, you're on the call sheet, but just so you know, your character does not matter.

Andy: 21:35

we have, We actually put him as number one on the call sheet, and then had Nine blank spaces and then started with everybody else.

Ronnie: 21:42

Your character, even when you feel like you have a comedic moment, is solely done so we can see what reaction is like. Well, this what the?

Andy: 21:51

This is a larger thing and I guess we would get into as we go, but It really, part of my problem with this show, I think on initial watching, is That, uh, Judd Hirsh is the one that it's tilted towards us locking into Mm-Hmm.

Ronnie: 22:06

Mm-Hmm.

Andy: 22:07

And he has this wound in the credits Mm-Hmm. It's true, this trauma. And then he's dealing with these people and you're kind of waiting for the rest of his character to kind of become established other than just the pain of the divorce. Mm-Hmm. And I kind of feel it. I don't feel, it's definitely not established in that. In the pilot. And I wonder what your memory is of like, do you feel like he. Is built to more than just a reactor, a straight man, to these other characters as time goes on? I

Ronnie: 22:39

I mean, from my memory, I would go, don't think so. I think, it's one of those things that, mean, maybe you all can attest, but it is like, oh, if a show is popular, They don't then go you know what let's really dig into the character and sort of like make him more meaty and give him more Layers, they kind of go make him even less attached to this

Sean: 23:03

Lonnie, what if we do an episode where Judd drives to Washington D. C. and tries to get into the White House? that's

Ronnie: 23:10

right. Just how can we avoid as much actual sort of digging into their own emotional state and stuff as possible in a, in a comedy sitcom in the late eighties, early nineties,

Andy: 23:22

Yes. that's it is generally all it's the Gilligan's island, uh, sort of uh, structure of just keep it all the same. Don't change too much. Although you could see even in this pilot, They do clearly are just like, but maybe something's happening between the lady and him. It might be a little Sam and Diane. You guys love cheers? right. Huh?

Ronnie: 23:40

I mean, it's one of those things that it, like just even watching the pilot and, and being someone who, you know, has studied sort of the aspect of like writing and

Andy: 23:51

stuff like

Ronnie: 23:52

you know, just a professional. I'm just a professional. Just a professional. Um, it is interesting because they hit all the tentpoles of. This is what you need to make a multi cam comedy. You need this character, this character, and then it's like everybody hits the beats. It's like, alright, here's the straight man that's going to, that's like the world, that the world is happening to. Here is the, here is the like over the top sort of, eh, sad sack guy. Here's the overly confident guy who does things. Here is the And then like, and you know, like, and what does the woman do? Usually they're, their character is there to be like, you do too much of this. Or we need, everybody needs to calm down. And then you might have like one woman who's like just a little silly or she'll say something that's like, you can't say that you're

Sean: 24:40

that's what killed me about that final, that final moment with uh, the woman who was just sitting there the whole

Ronnie: 24:46

right.

Sean: 24:47

was like, Oh, Here she comes,

Ronnie: 24:50

here she comes, and she comes back in the second episode, her and the other guy who doesn't talk, but he was also in there, so.

Sean: 24:57

Well, and I think, from what I understand, he never spoke,

Andy: 25:00

Which is a great

Sean: 25:01

bit. Yeah, like he was there

Ronnie: 25:03

he was very quiet.

Sean: 25:04

And he never said anything.

Andy: 25:05

And I think You're forgetting that in addition to all the the standard, you know, stereotypical characters, then they include the uh, the diverse. character that's just the token in there. Oh wait, no they don't.

Ronnie: 25:17

don't. Right, they don't. They don't. The thing that got me about this one specifically is, Oh, when, you know, he sort of goes to, I don't, are we, is there like an order that we go to if we're talking about this?

Sean: 25:30

this? There's always a very specific order to this

Andy: 25:33

I asked Sean to tee it up and then I interrupted him immediately and threw it off the rails.

Sean: 25:38

Well, no, Let's Let's talk about that. Let's go through all these moments. Because it does start with him walking into his apartment and finding the letter on the mantelpiece. and

Ronnie: 25:48

thing that catches you up immediately because that's in the theme song of a show. Something that

Sean: 25:52

by the time you read these lines I'll be gone. So his wife has just left him. uh,

Ronnie: 25:57

It's catching you up to the, which is an interesting thing because as a TV watcher now, you know, shows don't really have theme songs or maybe they do. And I don't really just

Sean: 26:08

I feel like it's mostly mostly gone.

Ronnie: 26:10

right. In the same way, but of just like, this is what the show

Andy: 26:13

is. You're about to watch. Just

Sean: 26:15

like Well, It's very It's very Gilligan's Island of like anybody coming to the show for the first time would know. Exactly where they needed to

Ronnie: 26:22

Exactly. As opposed to now where they don't do it. And even as somebody who grew up with shows that had intros or theme songs, I also feel like I don't have the same patience for them now either. As opposed to if I was watching an older show, I would have patience for a theme song as opposed to watching a newer show. And if they had like a theme song, I'm like, skip intro, you know, if they have one or whatever, But

Andy: 26:47

is that, you're saying even if you have, if they have. Sort of, I don't know what we want to call these, like, uh, story theme songs, Even if they have a story theme song you're like, I don't care. You skip past it.

Ronnie: 26:56

Well, I don't, just don't think they don't, I I, maybe they're just not as compelling now as they were. Right.

Sean: 27:02

Here's, yeah. I, I, agree with you because I feel like now we have the option. I don't know if you know that the, the entertainment industrial complex is trying to trick, us into, but anyway, you have the option now where you can. skip, you can skip.

Andy: 27:14

think, right, Ronnie, as

Ronnie: 27:16

Once again, I'm once again, I'm sure there's a Venn diagram of our thoughts about this, but not specifically

Andy: 27:21

Ronnie got a lot of hate mail of how you were, how you were framing what he was saying,

Sean: 27:26

you can skip the theme song on a lot of shows, I'm very aware of the ones where And it's most of them where I'm like, I don't care. Just get to the, get to the show. Whereas there are some that I'm like, Oh, I love watching this. Theme song and it's never because it's the story of the show or

Ronnie: 27:45

anything. Mm-Hmm.

Sean: 27:46

I'm trying to think of a good, oh, slow Horses, which is on Apple tv. right now. has like a great new stone song as the theme song So

Andy: 27:54

kind of a ringer of like you got, the

Sean: 27:56

But that's what I'm saying, like it's,

Andy: 27:58

new song.

Sean: 27:58

a way to figure out how to make the theme

Andy: 28:01

But also visually. That's really, we should definitely do slow Yeah, yeah. There's, a, Uh, there's definitely a vibe to it that like does ease you in and a lot of shows do that, but it's not satisfying. but I will say that uh along with what you were kind of saying about the slots of characters and um, and uh, you know, just like there's this uh, sitcom stalwart character and this one and this and the thing we're sort of saying about it's such a fantastic shortcut To um, To getting the show started particularly in the pilot of there's no breakup. There's no whatever it's in the it's in the credits. This is what the show is. We can show it every time and it's a repeat uh, in this way that I think a lot of action shows at the, at the time would just be like and Michael Knight now has his car And he's going to fight crime. And This is what it is. It's sort of like that. It's such a shortcut and what's interesting is There's not that much After we barely find out that much about the characters Even him, it's just sort of repartee, which is kind of admirable in a very theatrical way. of these people in a room for most of the pilot, there's even the one digression that we're going to talk about into the, he goes into the wrong room. It's like, that's kind of based on that. They had the thing at the top. That's just like, this is what the show is.

Sean: 29:27

you're you're absolutely right. I would argue that, to me, that's kind of what made it less satisfying as a pilot. Was that I felt like there wasn't really

Andy: 29:36

You wanted more of an origin

Sean: 29:38

story? Yes, I think that's going to be a good thing for us to analyze as we go through this Because

Andy: 29:50

think yes, I think that's going to be a good thing for us to analyze as we go through this, Cause I, I have similar feelings. Um, the, just to, I've circled this point, uh, What I'd like to do, Ronnie, is I like to, Just keep circling wildly spiraling closer to a point. just until

Sean: 30:07

until I interrupt so let's talk about this Yeah,

Andy: 30:10

but whatever the case the thing I was circling to was just um, that this was developed, by Bob Ellison and Peter Noah, and Ed Weinberger, uh, was I, I couldn't tell from the credits he was the executive producer, that maybe he was their supervisor, AKA the person who was sort of had a little bit more of the faith of the network and was put sort of overseeing them, even though Bob Ellison and Peter Noah created it, but, they all kind of started in kind of the Mary Tyler Moore Rota universe. Um, Bob Ellison started on Mary Tyler Moore. His longest run as a writer was on Wings, and Carolyn in the City, and Becker, just like these long runs, so just a sitcom professional, and Peter Noah, did, sort of also started from that world. Uh, and did 41 episodes on Yes, Dear, but then

Ronnie: 30:59

But didn't all these shows come after this? Yes.

Andy: 31:01

I'm just sort of giving the overview of their career, uh, and then dovetailed and did, 66 episodes on West Wing and kind of did more dramas after this. but the thing, and then Ed Weinberger did, we created the Cosby Show, he created Phyllis, the Betty White Show, he co created Taxi. Um, so he probably had that relationship with, With, Hurst. So I don't know if that was why he sort of was in the mix here, but I guess my point is these were people who were, to your, to your point, Ronnie, we're like, these are a long time old mainstream multi camera sitcom. and I can say it. Comedy professionals.

Sean: 31:38

About them,

Andy: 31:39

sure. And the last thing I just want to say, that's sort of an interesting side note in looking at the credits, and I, as always. Call our tip line. I would love to, uh, I would love to know more or just, uh, drop us an email. um, if

Sean: 31:51

Andy, it's Peter Noah. I

Andy: 31:53

oh, I would

Ronnie: 31:53

it!

Andy: 31:54

I would love it, But like, Peter Noah left after the first

Sean: 31:58

And got another show

Andy: 31:59

immediately. So, I do wonder What the backstory? Was he like, oh, I can get an hour long and kind of diversify? is it This ran for four seasons, but he wasn't on it, so I would love to know what the backstory

Sean: 32:13

he got another show called Anything But Love with Richard Lewis and Jamie Lee Curtis. didn't

Andy: 32:17

create it

Sean: 32:18

that started, Oh, you're saying he what did he create? Yeah,

Andy: 32:21

And because that's an interesting move to have moved from one show that you created, uh, to another show. that you're I'm

Sean: 32:29

Sick of all this responsibility.

Ronnie: 32:31

you say with Richard Lewis and Jamie Lee Curtis?

Andy: 32:34

you not even know it?

Ronnie: 32:35

What a show. What a, what a cast of two people.

Andy: 32:38

that. That was a That was a good show. That was one that I, I really loved and watched

Ronnie: 32:45

end.

Sean: 32:46

even heard of It until

Andy: 32:47

last In the pilot it sets up that they're That's what it seemed like

Sean: 33:00

In the pilot, it sets up that

Andy: 33:02

I was

Sean: 33:04

Yeah. That's what it seemed like from what I was reading last night. Um, okay. So,

Andy: 33:08

I got to the point. Applause, applause,

Sean: 33:12

really is a professional. Um,

Andy: 33:14

Not a podcast professional, just a vague professional.

Sean: 33:18

he, so we go through the theme song, we see all the things that are happening to him. I did not, I'm not good at understanding images I see connected to words. So, when you see him come out of the Supreme Court of New York. Which is supposed to be like, oh, he just got divorced. I was like, oh, he must be a judge or something. Like, I thought that was what the

Andy: 33:37

or a criminal

Sean: 33:39

it was only later that I realized that's what that was

Andy: 33:43

what

Sean: 33:44

but then, so then, yeah. So we find out all this stuff about how terribly his his life has gone with his wife. and he's, And then the first scene is him moving into, out of his house. he, He walks out of his house. With with suitcases, I think. And then he's moving into his his new apartment.

Ronnie: 34:03

That one you got.

Sean: 34:06

Okay. I didn't realize it was an apartment. at first. I thought he

Ronnie: 34:09

I thought he was a door to door suitcase

Sean: 34:11

Oh, he's at the, He's at the doctor's office.

Andy: 34:13

Well, they explain that in the scene? Or do they show him moving into a crappy apartment before the scene?

Sean: 34:18

No, no, no. they explain it in the scene.

Ronnie: 34:20

CIA.

Andy: 34:20

So they have people, they have humans explaining it

Sean: 34:22

Tell my, tell my brother this apartment that he's moving into will be fine. Like it was such a.

Ronnie: 34:27

gave you

Sean: 34:28

everything. Yeah.

Ronnie: 34:29

They gave you every, I was like, oh that's such a, Hey, you're going to forgive us for this, because you just need to know what's going on to get us to the thing.

Andy: 34:35

you want to hear a bunch of, uh, labored exposition, or do you want to be going, What's going on? And

Ronnie: 34:40

What's going on? Right. Tell my brother when he's moving into this new apartment from his divorce, from his thing, Oh, so and so forth. Oh, can you believe it? His best friend is like, Okay, everything is like letting you know all

Sean: 34:51

By the time he read those lines, she was gone.

Ronnie: 34:53

was gone. We

Andy: 34:54

We already heard that, in the title song. We

Sean: 34:56

cutting, we're cutting that line.

Ronnie: 34:58

We're cutting, we're cutting.

Andy: 34:59

for the record, I would love it if people did that more in life. Just stacked everything for me Cause I can never follow what's going on.

Ronnie: 35:04

That's how I do improv. I get you to focus for a good 15 to 20 seconds of backstory. Then, hey, now that you have all the information, have at it. Um,

Sean: 35:15

so he's in, so he's in his new apartment with his sister and his brother in law.

Andy: 35:20

Played by Richard Portnow, um, who we both had brother in law, yes. Um, that's

Sean: 35:28

by the way, that's a joke they would do on that show where it's like somebody misunderstanding a statement. And

Andy: 35:33

And then there would be several other lines. Yeah, yeah. Oh, I I

Sean: 35:36

I thought you said this. Yeah.

Ronnie: 35:37

thing.

Andy: 35:39

Yeah. and uh, Richard Portnow is one of those, uh, you know, just constant journeyman actors. And We're going to have a couple of them in this. Uh, that, uh, he played, the, he played Louis B. Mayer in Trumbo. He was, uh, the attorney, uh, Mel Bowen. I don't know if that's how it's pronounced on sopranos, but I do remember him. That was the thing. It was just like you're always trying to remember, like, uh, I sometimes refer to it as, uh, what's my claim to fame on it? Uh, for this guy and then Detective Mastrianetti and Barton Fink, I think is the more of the one that I knew him from, but it's, but to your point about the exposition, Ronnie. He's in this episode and never seen. He's only there as a, a conduit for exposition and then they dispense with him and he is never seen

Sean: 36:24

Well, it was also interesting to me. I don't know. This is one of those things we were talking about before where I felt like it was not real. It's not a real thing. And it was just done for like, Oh, this will be hilarious. This pushed reality where there's a guy just going, boy, you really had to have a terrible life right now. your wife Sleeps with your best friend? That must feel awful. You

Andy: 36:45

Here's an interesting question. I like to call my questions interesting before I say them. Um, Here we go. Buckle up.

Ronnie: 36:53

have

Sean: 36:53

buzzer ready. to see whether or not it's interesting.

Andy: 36:55

I'm going to Wait, no, I'm not going out on stage yet. I'm almost ready. Uh, But here's an interesting question. You're you're the, you're creating this episode. You have to get this exposition out. Why do you add that character? And I assume the answer is like, Oh, well we want a character that is a little bit more pushed and he's being more insensitive to, to John. But the sister is not our main character either. Why don't you just make that the persona of the sister that she says too much or says things that are insensitive without realizing it. And it's like, did they know that the brother was going away and the sister was, you know, gonna be our main, more of our central character, uh, or, you know, one of the recurring characters that

Sean: 37:38

we did So not to lock her into that character?

Andy: 37:40

it's just like, just give her a funny

Ronnie: 37:42

I think it's also

Andy: 37:44

And then have it just be her and Judd

Sean: 37:46

make up, make a woman funny in the in the

Andy: 37:48

I do wonder. if that was maybe the subtext. Because you could have had the conversation between her and and John,

Ronnie: 37:53

could have, but I think you also go And maybe this is them. All right, she can't be talking to herself. When she's explaining what the scenario is. So then if it's like, well, do you go, Hey, your new apartment, John, it looks really nice. Or do you have the sort of difficult conversation or talk about the difficult points about his experiences right now? You have that conversation with somebody else. So then when he comes in, it's like, Oh, so I think it's like. I understand your point, because I have a bigger sort of issue that sort of like hovers around what you two have been

Sean: 38:31

it a, Is it an interesting issue?

Ronnie: 38:33

issue? I wouldn't, I wouldn't go

Andy: 38:34

far. You didn't? Oh

Ronnie: 38:35

I wouldn't go that far.

Andy: 38:36

Ronnie, the way you hook them is you frame it as this next thing I'm going to say is interesting. Um, But, yeah, because I want to hear what that point is. remember, the point that I, there's a thing I have to say in response is I agree with you. That is the easiest, perhaps laziest way of getting to it. And I've done The lazy version, On many an occasion. um, uh, to have this other character be like, Hey, I'm talking about Sean before Ronnie comes. I'm talking about Ronnie before you know, to

Sean: 39:06

were you talking about me before I got here?

Andy: 39:08

I

Ronnie: 39:08

really blew this whole point.

Andy: 39:10

I'm talking, about Ronnie to Sean before Ronnie comes in. So that I can say all the information, the only problem is. The brother knows all the information that the sister said. too. So if you're gonna do that shortcut, you might as well find a semi artful way. And I think the brother's game kind of does it of. I'm saying all these kind of hurtful things that you already know, um, you could have done that with the sister anyway and gotten all the exposition out.

Ronnie: 39:37

But she's supposed to be the sweet she's

Andy: 39:39

who decides that? This is the first time we've seen her. she's

Sean: 39:42

the sweet one. Who would decide That This is the first time we've seen her. shot at it, and then just nobody went, Hey, what if we combine these two characters? Which is the thing that happens in pilots all the time, where two characters are serving sort of the same purpose, and you can go, let's get rid of one of them and have them do everything that they're both doing. And it feels like nobody made that call on this.

Andy: 40:20

And as someone who's, uh, who's done both multi cams, uh, my own and, uh, single cams, well, I have a couple of different theories as a sitcom archaeologist. The One is, it was a network note late in the process. They had to get the exposition in. This was a late edition of put the brother in. Another one is, We gotta build the world out. This brother's gonna be hilarious. And then probably because they made him kind of a dick, they tested him and the audience was like, I don't like that guy that's being insensitive to our hero

Sean: 40:50

It's okay, he just got booked on the Sopranos. so he's

Andy: 40:53

Sopranos. So there's another option. And then the third, uh, option is, when you're shooting a pilot that's a multicam. So many of the rewrites are happening in the week that you're shooting and rehearsing it. And you kind of go in in the morning and you run it for the network, If we run it to the studio, and then you run it for the network, and you're getting notes at each stage. coming at you so fast and furious. Um, no relation to the movies. Um, that uh, great. They're are great. Yeah, and We're not going to cover those at some point because they're movies.

Ronnie: 41:24

You wouldn't call the first movie a pilot movie in a Like, I feel like if a movie has ten at least, you could to do the first? some point you could say the first one was the pilot of the series,

Andy: 41:34

Then would we do Clone Wars or would we do a new is the question. Anyway, um, yeah. It's just sort of like, To give them a little, these people in the past a little leeway. Nobody knows what they dealt with that week. of Shooting when you're trying to keep all these balls in the air. You know, juggle all these balls at the same time. Right.

Sean: 41:54

so anyway, we see him move into his new place. Which is very sad. And then she suggests that he get involved with a Group of some sort called one to one, which is a place that he'll meet people and be able to maybe start dating again now that he's

Ronnie: 42:17

and

Andy: 42:17

sorry if this is a, this is an obvious thing that I, I am overlooking. Why is it called one-to-One Because there's a group.

Ronnie: 42:24

uh, I do not know

Sean: 42:28

Well, no, no,

Andy: 42:29

long time fan of Dear John. Ronnie. Adrian says, I do not

Sean: 42:33

known national organization where you go to meet people.

Ronnie: 42:36

Oh, the one-to-one? Yeah. Oh, okay. So it's like one

Sean: 42:40

it's like the Boy Scouts or? You

Ronnie: 42:42

Mm-Hmm. Mm-Hmm. those guys

Andy: 42:43

often. I will miss a pun, so I didn't know if there was a pun in there that I wasn't

Ronnie: 42:46

getting. Yeah. I mean, if it is, I'm not a big punt guy, so if it is, I'm also missing it. It's,

Sean: 42:51

it's, it is a pun. It's one to one. So it's like he started out as one and then he was two with his wife. and now he's back to one.

Ronnie: 42:59

1, 2, 1. Actually, I mean, I hope that's it.'cause you, I mean, yeah, it does.

Sean: 43:05

they wrote it out and it said one. T. O. One. So that's not even, um. I have a, I have a pitch on a 40 year old 40

Andy: 43:14

year

Ronnie: 43:15

sitcom.

Andy: 43:15

Great.

Ronnie: 43:16

Just to clarify. Um,

Sean: 43:18

Peter Noah. I star 69

Andy: 43:21

why I left after the first season. Too many pitches from the world.

Ronnie: 43:26

Well here, so here's my, because even when you were talking about earlier to this point, I think a thing about this pilot and maybe this is back then when, you know, Money was flowing hand over fist, so you can sort of, like a part where you're saying like, Why don't you just combine these two parts? They kind of go, we can afford to have two people. So, he can say one line, Spurge can say one line, it doesn't hurt us at all or whatever. You know, but

Andy: 43:56

This is the interesting thing. So little is established in this pilot in a kind of almost an admirable way, because, because, because people, people really like networks, at the time really would cram every that's why they have those long expositional passes. We have to tell them everything. We have to have everything happen. So it's a very sort of lackadaisical. Vibe of a pilot, and so to me it would just be like, well combine those characters so that you have John in the first

Ronnie: 44:24

No, you never know cause you're gonna, you might need the brother in law. I think it's like, you're right, it's like, oh, they come into this thing thinking, well here are people who could permeate this world. And this is what my issue is. It's that. in pilots, oftentimes people are willing to sort of accept the fact that a pilot might suffer because you're spending a lot of time introducing characters that now when now that introduced, if you give us more episodes, then you can kind of see them come out in a more fun way. And, you know. And the great pilots are the pilots who sort of like do that thing, but in a way that doesn't, that's like, man, they did it so good. So when we talk about some of these pilots that you know, that I didn't want to sort of recommend, it's like, oh, this is the way to do a pilot, as opposed to sort of the way that I'm a The majority of pilots happen where it's like, it's an interesting idea and you get bogged down a little bit because we're introducing all these characters, but you're like, okay, I'm, let me give it another episode to see like, if I actually like the show

Sean: 45:24

You want to, you want to come out of the pilot going, I know it's his mother and I know she's a car.

Ronnie: 45:29

Right. I know it's his mother. I know it's a car. I know it's a dog that surfs or whatever, you know.

Andy: 45:33

Not having, I don't know that I've seen a single episode of that, so I don't even know if it begins with like, And now, my

Ronnie: 45:38

it begins with like, And now, I'm And now. But, my issue, particularly with this one, after even re watching it, is, they introduce so many people in a way that you're like, is this somebody? And then they aren't. Or you're like, or do they come back? Cause even when he goes to the first room, I'm thinking like, okay, these the

Sean: 45:57

a big deal. And the

Ronnie: 45:59

and the woman. And I was like, okay, right. Like. Yeah, and then that thing happens, he doesn't. And then you're like, huh? And then, so like with the sister or the brother, you're like, they're doing these characters and you're like, who is important here? Like, this is

Sean: 46:12

And I, and I think that's problematic in a pilot because then you're like, I'm not sure who I'm supposed to be watching right now. I think by the end of the show. It's okay, but I found it confusing early on because I was like, when is the brother in law coming back? I want to hear more about why his life

Ronnie: 46:27

Does he run back into the black dude in the hallway? Like, when does he, like, does, like,

Sean: 46:31

does he start dating the lady who's running the

Ronnie: 46:33

AA. Right. Right. And it's just like, oh, oh, okay, I guess they were just sort of there. For the joke of it all, but he was in that space just like a tad too long that made you feel like, Oh, this might be important. And it's like, Oh, this isn't important.

Andy: 46:52

Well, let's, let's get into that because I have a lot of

Sean: 46:55

lot of opinions. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that's, uh, that's the, That's the next I like that I coined a new phrase. It's the, uh, it's the meeting is the next scene. He goes in, he goes to the one to one club meeting. And, one Why

Andy: 47:10

Why is it one to one?

Sean: 47:11

one? First you were one, then you were two, and now you are one again. That's

Andy: 47:15

that is, that's absolutely what it is. That's a hundred percent what it is. I'm so glad other people didn't get it too.

Sean: 47:25

I don't know. I

Andy: 47:25

No, that's definitely what it is. Now that I

Ronnie: 47:27

Sean might have just made it make sense. If you ask the name and go like, we don't, somebody just came up with the name and we were like, that

Sean: 47:33

like, People spending time with each other, yeah. It's

Andy: 47:36

it's it's clunky branding, but it is clever. I I think that that is what it is.

Sean: 47:40

I don't. Okay. Um, but anyway, they're in the, they're in the, meeting and. Faye is the woman we meet and we're very charmed by Faye. and we're Excited to see how she eventually ends up. uh, dating, uh, Judd,

Ronnie: 47:54

and she has a lot of personality in a way that makes you feel like this character is going to

Sean: 47:59

is somebody, she's obviously a well-trained actress. She's a comedy professional. Yep. Um, and then he sits down, he's uncomfortable. He meets the guy next to him. Frank.

Ronnie: 48:10

Who's black? Who's black?

Andy: 48:11

is black? The one, one black character? in it? Yep. So here's the thing I gotta say, interestingly. uh, cause I don't see color, I didn't even notice, I was just looking, but, but the interesting thing about, uh, Frank, who is played by Brent Jennings, and I was like, I know this guy, who do I know this guy from, and I started to look through his credits, and suddenly I was like, wait a minute, and even before I got to this in the credits, he's again, one of these class, it's really interesting going back, Uh, to the, some of the pilots were, were, which were further back and then saying, that guy's so familiar. And it's like, what was his claim to fame? What was the thing that I know him from? That's clearly What did

Sean: 48:49

he do later on?

Andy: 48:51

like, a lot of these people are not, they were just someone who is perpetually woven into the fabric of your life in small parts throughout decades. And you're like, Oh, I know that guy so well. And, uh,

Sean: 49:05

weird,

Andy: 49:05

weird, weird guys is one of them, but in the last year, for some reason, I became, Ronnie was talking, about TV shows you'll re watch, um, even though you've seen them again, just sort of because they're comfortable and you know you're going to enjoy them. And Moneyball became one of them. I am not a Sporto. I don't like, I, you know, I was a Knicks fan, I was a Jets fan, I, I don't really like. Follow diehard in a

Sean: 49:30

fashion. That's

Andy: 49:33

That's true. I kept shouting J E T S and, uh, got a lot of cold

Ronnie: 49:41

Mm-Hmm. Mm-Hmm.

Andy: 49:42

Um, but, uh, whatever the case, um,,uh, wa watch Moneyball for some reason during the pandemic again and again, and like then started to watch little scenes and one of the scenes. That I locked in on, which I'm about to show to you guys, was with Brent Jennings as one of the coaches who goes with him to hire, uh, Scott Hattiesburg, Chris Pratt's character. And I was just like, this guy is a comedy surgeon. This guy is amazing. It's a tiny part. Everything out of his mouth is perfectly timed. And it's interesting because he has like two lines in this pilot, you know, one of which is just John, you forgot your paper and they're fucking precision. They're perfect. Like this is a long time ago. Uh, so anyway, I just wanted, we don't know if we're gonna uh, include it or not. So you can cut this out if we don't. but, just wanted to show you the, the scene. we're

Sean: 51:04

one of them. The fans

Andy: 51:06

It's

Ronnie: 51:07

just You know what's

Andy: 51:09

Hey, don't undersell it, Ronnie, this guy's

Ronnie: 51:10

No.

Andy: 51:11

Yeah.

Ronnie: 51:12

I honestly didn't Seeing this clip, I'm like, Oh, I know who that guy is. And I've seen him and stuff. And he's usually like the, he's kind of like the, in that same vein, like the black guy and the thing that's like, come on, man, like that, like this sort of like that, that attitude and whatever the thing

Andy: 51:29

is, the black voice of

Ronnie: 51:30

right. Sort of the thing or whatever. Like the, just the no nonsense. Like I'm, I'm tired of putting up with this sort of like character that's inserted in some of these things. So it's interesting because. Seeing him in that younger, I didn't realize that him and that guy were the same person. Right. So seeing him, like seeing him there, I'm like, that's how I remember him from stuff. It's interesting because I didn't even put that together.

Andy: 51:52

Yeah. And his big thing has been Lodge 49, which I never have seen any of So apparently he's got, he finally got a sizable recurring, uh, if not regular role on that. So good for him.

Ronnie: 52:04

I think what we should point out to um, what um, Sean's been pushing also is there is a world of people who have been woven into our lives, you know, through these things for decades. And now Hollywood is trying to take that opportunity away from people, um, being able to make a living and being able to support themselves through the, through roles and stuff like this, by being able to pay a fair

Sean: 52:26

going

Andy: 52:27

Guys, we're gonna have to go to corporate sponsors. I don't want to offend our overlords,

Sean: 52:31

you are goddamn right. right. going to invite you to a meeting,

Ronnie: 52:36

Okay. All right. Then that's where I've been. Diane Graham meets.

Andy: 52:40

works. That's my stance.

Sean: 52:43

we have an organization called one 100, 000 to one.

Ronnie: 52:47

still don't

Andy: 52:48

get it.

Ronnie: 52:49

it. But

Andy: 52:50

But anyway, so yes. I don't even remember how far you got into setting this up. did No,

Ronnie: 52:56

say? Um, and then the guy, he sat next to the guy

Sean: 52:58

part where she says, we have a couple of new people here. Let's have them introduce themselves. And they both look like they don't want to be the one. to go first, certainly not Judd Hirsch, because this is very uncomfortable for him to be here. And so the other guy stands up and says, Hi, my name is Frank. And everybody goes, Hi, Frank. And he goes, I'm an alcoholic. Uh, and that's when Judd realizes he's in the wrong. room.

Andy: 53:21

So here is my experience of this. And you guys can tell me yours. Um, As soon as you talk about like unnecessary excess verbiage in a pilot, as soon as he goes up to her and says, uh, I'm John. I talked to you this afternoon. I whatever. And she's like, Oh, I don't, I don't have you down on my list, but please have a seat and join us. Why, why take that time other than later? You know, the lady says, Oh yes, I spoke to you this afternoon, but yeah, you could

Ronnie: 53:50

I spoke to you this afternoon,

Andy: 53:52

to you

Ronnie: 53:53

That's exactly how you said it, actually. So, uh, thank you for committing,

Andy: 53:57

for like that happens, but that could have happened anyway without this this, this shoe leather as we

Ronnie: 54:03

Well, there's very piloty sort of aspects in this episode.'cause even that point, it's, when he realizes in the wrong room and then like he's sort of thrown outta that room. Like the other thing is across the hall and then he's peeking into the thing. He doesn't go in, he's like peeking in.'cause I guess at this point he's like about to give up. Like no, I'm just not gonna do it. He kind of peeks into the room and she walks over and she's like May I help you? And he's like, um, you know, thank you and he's like no and the the pilot aspect is that this person just goes like Oh, uh, your name's John, right? I spoke to you where it's a thing that it's like, you don't usually do that too often in a way that, like, people don't really just, then start just assuming stuff, but in a pilot it's like, you're the thing, right? I talked to you, come on in, like, da da da, in a way that only happens in da

Andy: 54:55

da, the way that only happens in television. I do think like, at least it's sort of woven into her character that she sort of tries to be the mama, mama bird to all these people. And so she's like, Oh, I know everyone's uncomfortable. I'm sorry. I know everyone's uncomfortable when they come in here. Hello. Yes. I would have liked Robin Williams in that part in

Ronnie: 55:22

probably would have

Sean: 55:23

so are you pitching To cut Faye from the

Andy: 55:25

No, all I'm saying is that moment was like, he could have just come into the room and I, don't know if it was a network note of like, but how, why is he in there? Why didn't he know it was the wrong room? And you have to do that. but it's like all of that set up. I'm immediately like, oh, he's in the wrong room. And so then I'm in my head and I wonder how this, had the, the, your civilian audience would respond. because I feel like they would respond the same as me as a comedy professional. Um, that, uh, that they would go. Yeah. Uh, all right, well, so he's in the wrong room. It's obviously going to be some twist. The obvious twist is that it's an AA meeting, but that's not really a hard joke. So what is it going to be? Is it going to be what, you know, what harder, more offensive, more on the edge thing is just like, no, it's, it's an AA meeting and that's the big drop that they took like a minute and a half of, of network airtime to build up to.

Sean: 56:19

So here's a weird, this is my take on the whole thing. To me, that was the only moment of the entire pilot that I enjoyed.

Andy: 56:28

And did you see it coming or you Oh, there you go. So I'm in the wrong. I

Sean: 56:33

liked that. And then I liked the heightening of that beat in the other

Andy: 56:37

Well, that brings me to the other sort of trying to peek into their heads moment for me is I was like, Ugh, that's such a. Yeah, I get it. He went in the wrong room. We took so much time. I kind of admired again, that it's like they took so much

Sean: 56:51

but to me, that's because they're setting it up that that's the pilot and that's what they're going for is like, Oh, this is the woman he's going to end up with. Like traditional

Andy: 57:01

that it's almost a meta

Sean: 57:03

Well, that it's like, yeah. the joke is, yeah, Misdirection.

Andy: 57:08

Yeah. I think that, I think it kind of. ends up being that. So I kind of can't fault you for that. I don't know that I've seen enough evidence of that sensibility thus far. And maybe Ronnie, you can speak to it, whether there is more of a commentee kind of hip perspective outside of the sitcom on the sitcom that existed later in the series. I don't see enough of it in that moment to prove to me that was their

Ronnie: 57:33

intent. I think that. Judd Hirsch's strengths, or what they're, um, digging into is his reactions. Cause even if you're looking, uh, even if you're watching too, he has a lot of moments where the cell is just how he's sort of like reacting or doing something or like how he's trying to look like, oh, you know, like it's. it's sort of like very British comedy esque in that way that is very much like the thing happens and then now we turn to the camera and it's this guy trying to like, oh, I mean, like, you know, and it's all in that thing. And I think they invest a lot in sort of. sell us, like physically sell us this joke. So even in that moment, it is funny because you do get to, and maybe the laugh track helps where you're kind of like, it does feel like, but he is selling that. They do like live in those moments a lot longer. Um, in a way that's like. Uh, and see him kind of go around, see him look around like, Oh, wait, hold on, hold on. And where it's

Andy: 58:35

a standard yes multicam sitcom sort of, uh, sensibility at the time, Which I think a lot often can work in the time, even if it is broader and it is more theatrical. And I think all in the family being the quintessential example of like all those performances were huge, but they were also hilarious and grounded somehow. Ooh, all cheeked.

Ronnie: 58:57

I

Andy: 58:57

don't I remember her sounding like that, but I don't know, maybe maybe it's been a while. Um, Tune in to our alternate podcast where we just do every television show with a cast of Mrs. Doubtfires. Oh, what are you, Bad, you dingbat? ha ha ha

Ronnie: 59:17

was a run

Andy: 59:19

ha! Uh, anyway, um, What are

Ronnie: 59:22

What are you talking about, Willis? Ha ha

Andy: 59:25

ha ha

Ronnie: 59:26

ha ha

Andy: 59:27

ha ha ha ha Um,

Ronnie: 59:32

I should point out we're having a blast. And Kevin, who is um, engineering this podcast doesn't seem to be laughing at all at

Sean: 59:38

all

Andy: 59:40

Really? Uh,

Ronnie: 59:42

school.

Andy: 59:44

talking about

Ronnie: 59:46

Brilliant. Uh, okay.

Sean: 59:48

you were talking about the, payoff of the Alcoholics Anonymous or, it was something about Judd Hirsch's. Reaction shots and, you know, that kind of stuff.

Andy: 59:56

With performance, because I agree with you, and I think this is like, if like, seven is like, Oh, that's in the pocket, that's the perfect combination of grounded and, broad, this was definitely over that, for all of the characters in that moment. and so I was kind of a little bit like, oh boy. Uh, I will say though, They sort of danced in an area where even today, I was kind of like, you have the right pieces for this to be kind of amazing in that they sort of pivoted to the whole room, him going, no, no, I'm not in the right room. And then I'm all going like, you have to face that you have a problem. And it's a little bit not handled the best, but it's like, I really love that, that concept. And so that almost justifies the AA element. and then him kind of being insensitive to them when they talk about, yeah, most of us are divorced. Like, oh, I'm sure because you're both, you're all probably all, and he kind of makes a drinking motion. that him being insensitive to them is funny. And then to the thing that John was referring to that happens in the next scene, that, to jump ahead, that there's a drop, that I do love it, being kind of a meta thing. There's a bunch of people in the room who are in the wrong room there, they reveal. And that they actually are supposed to be in the Alcoholics Anonymous. uh, Meeting that one. I didn't see coming. And that one is like, it's a, at least we are led to believe a, an applause break, uh, from the audience. I would hate to think that part of the canned laughter is that they add an applause to that

Sean: 1:01:27

I I I, will say I was watching it here and I applauded and I don't know if that was because of the applause from the audience, but

Andy: 1:01:34

you know. And that I was

Ronnie: 1:01:40

what, the thing that the nitpicky thing that I'll express about it is then the woman, uh, the runner of the one to one session goes, well let me go see if we have any more people over there and in my mind I was like, well Judd Hirsch just came over there after saying he wanted to. So would somebody be over there and they stayed even though he just pointed out the fact that these are the two things? And then she brings back the guy who never talks. So I was like, I was like, it's like that sort of thing that is like, well, how do we get her out of the room so they can talk?

Sean: 1:02:12

what that felt

Ronnie: 1:02:12

And then it was

Andy: 1:02:13

you would've been the person that was that was instantly like, Hey, I'm pitching jokes on this pilot, trying to get a job. We're not hiring. him. That guy's gonna be a problem.

Ronnie: 1:02:22

exactly the thing they tell you not to do, which is, Hey, don't poke holes in the

Sean: 1:02:26

Captain Plot Hole.

Ronnie: 1:02:28

But

Andy: 1:02:28

it's uh, you're a hundred percent. Right. That that is, uh,

Sean: 1:02:33

it did feel very cumbersome to get her outta the room. So they could talk while she wasn't there.

Andy: 1:02:37

you know? But anyway, the, the long and the short of that, that, that point, this kind of spiral I was trying to get to there was just that, that was so effectively funny that I wonder if they built the first part, which is sort of like, that's sort of a soft joke that he's in an AA meeting, then they had the build ons, and were like, well, those are a little bit funny, and then they had the killer joke, which is everybody in the other room is also in the wrong room, that they were like, well, this part, this payoff is too funny, so therefore we can't, Change the soft setup for it. And I wonder if that was how it played out.

Sean: 1:03:09

again, like I said, that was the one part of the whole pilot that I was like, oh, this is really funny. And I feel like it's such a long thing.

Andy: 1:03:18

Right. That which is astonishing

Sean: 1:03:20

suffers because of that.

Andy: 1:03:22

This is what's weird is it does, I don't think they were going for. The meta aspect that you're you're talking about but they did successfully build like and then again as I keep saying in an admirable way, They did this whole set piece with the AA meeting just Basically for this punchline in the

Sean: 1:03:39

up the

Andy: 1:03:39

I'm just like, Good for you guys. Good on you guys. Nonetheless, you're left with a pilot was just like, I don't know what I'm watching here. and

Sean: 1:03:46

I'm always looking in these things at how much time has gone by and how far into the story we've gotten. And I checked at that point, I don't remember

Andy: 1:03:54

what it was. I think it was halfway

Sean: 1:03:56

It was over 13 minutes into the show. And I'm like, I still don't, and if I was reading the script, if I was just reading the script as like a writing sample or something, It would be in the garbage by

Andy: 1:04:07

then. And that's why I point to moments like the brother that you could have condensed and the unnecessary setup with the AA meeting uh, leader of like, those are moments that easily you could have lifted out to at least save time to get to the real characters Mm-Hmm.

Ronnie: 1:04:21

Well, the thing is, here's the, I mean,

Andy: 1:04:24

30 years ago, obviously

Ronnie: 1:04:26

the exec, the, the executionary aspect of this, you could say. is not, great, but if you, if they were to ask you, what do you know about what's happening into the thing? I think you would probably have more information about the show than you realize, because you would go, well, this is a story about a guy who came home and realized that, uh, his wife has left him, the Dear John letter. Obviously, they went to court, he got divorced, she got the house, and also she was cheating with his best friend, uh, he's been divorced for six months, the information is all, he's been divorced for six months, his sister talks him into sort of going to this one to one thing to meet people, cause I guess he's not meeting people, he goes to the thing, and the thing that I think is interesting about stuff like this is, is, is very improv y in a way where you have to sort of tell people, what, Uh, the reality is so when you go to this thing, it's like you have to be told hey This apartment is really shitty because i'm looking i'm like, I mean, I don't can't tell it's a shitty apartment unless you tell me So then even when he goes to the aa meeting, it's like you're supposed to be here And i'm thinking he just looks like a regular guy and they're like, nah, we can tell like, you know This thing and your breath has alcohol on and it's like, Oh, you have to kind of be told, Hey, this person clearly seems like somebody who's going through a problem, um, right now. And you're just thinking, he just seems like a regular guy, stand up guy in a nice, whatever, you know, and it's like, Oh, okay. You're, you're continuously having to sort of be funneled the information of, Hey, this is not good. His situation is not great. This this

Sean: 1:06:00

seems like the kind of guy who could be nominated for an Academy Award.

Ronnie: 1:06:03

you're right. So you're like, Oh, so they're like catching you up in this very, that

Andy: 1:06:08

it's not Judd Hirsch, and it's just like, oh wait, isn't that Judd Hirsch? Why would he be doing badly? Yeah.

Ronnie: 1:06:14

you're yeah, okay. So when it's like, yo, I can smell like, you know, this stuff on your breath and it's like dah, dah, dah. And you know, he's like, I had a little bit before I was nervous, blah, blah, blah. And it's like, okay, cool, whatever. And then you're sort of getting to the point to get to the next room and then you're over there and it is like, The one guy who is like, yeah, the caricature of sort of the overly confident but just unaware but doesn't care, but you all sort of kind of go like, yeah, we tolerate him and he's actually not that bad where you're like, that's not, that's only sitcom world where it's like somebody like this, you would try to avoid like the plague and that way you're like this guy, but you're like still very invitee to them and

Andy: 1:06:55

I kind of have affection for this crazy

Ronnie: 1:06:57

right to where like, At some point, yeah, you're going to get to like the guy because they're going to start to pepper in moments where it's like, Oh, I guess he's not that bad. But in real life, you would never get to those moments because you'd be trying to avoid that guy because he kind of sucks.

Sean: 1:07:11

You get that you could go with him and get your turkeys Tetra zineyed, But you don't necessarily want to. do that.

Andy: 1:07:18

right. Yeah.

Sean: 1:07:19

so That is the great Jerry Burns, who, who, again, I mean, I think more so than some of the other actors we've talked about, is just a very familiar face, and has done, a bunch of stuff, the thing, I, he was, the guy who ran, he was the fae of, uh, Jesse Pinkman's, uh, substance abuse group in Breaking Bad, Right. but the thing I loved him in was Justified, a fantastic show where he played a member of the Dixie Mafia, but he's been in, he's been in everything and in this, and I think it hit you as well and maybe it hit you too because this show came out in 1988 and in February of 1990. Andrew Dice Clay sold out Madison square Garden. It was The first time anybody had sold out Madison square garden And to me when I was watching it, I was like, Oh, Or I should say, I was like, Oh, this is just a guy doing a Dice Clay impression.

Andy: 1:08:16

So I guess that's kind of like,

Ronnie: 1:08:18

so you're saying that Andrew Dice Clay stole his impression from him?

Sean: 1:08:21

No, I'm saying the reverse. of

Ronnie: 1:08:23

Oh, okay.

Andy: 1:08:24

But What's interesting is they clearly, the question this is one of the things I would love to know what the reality is. They clearly are going minimally. It's kind of an Andrew Dice Clay character. Minimally. And maximally they're going, I think we should just get Andrew Dice Clay to Right. it. Right. And I guess that was part of my question of just like, Cause it's so, it's 100 percent Andrew Dice Clay's act. Even with some of the mannerisms. I mean, doesn't, he doesn't do this,

Sean: 1:08:54

this, I was waiting for him to smoke a cigarette across the top of his head.

Andy: 1:08:57

But he was, uh, Andrew Dice Clay prior to this it's sort of like been in Pretty in Pink and Crime Story. had a I think he just had a recurring, I don't think he was uh, he was a regular. I'd definitely love for us to do Crime Story at a certain point. Have you seen Crime Story? We're doing it at a certain point.

Ronnie: 1:09:13

Oh, okay.

Andy: 1:09:14

So just buckle up.

Ronnie: 1:09:15

Oh, okay. To listen?

Andy: 1:09:16

Um Yeah,

Sean: 1:09:18

Yeah, you're gonna subscribe, right? After this? This

Ronnie: 1:09:20

gotcha.

Andy: 1:09:20

This is, this is how we've been getting subscribers. Oh,

Sean: 1:09:22

We have four so far. we're working our way up the chain.

Ronnie: 1:09:25

All

Andy: 1:09:25

All of our reviews are, I like this when I was on. Yeah. But, uh, yeah, he didn't seem to, in terms of sort of media properties, have that much going on. So I have to assume he was offered this and maybe I guess because he was at his pinnacle as a stand up He was like this is not Sorry This is not Andrew Dice clay level money. I'm going to be trading

Ronnie: 1:09:54

be trading Hickory dickory dock! This chick was sucking my cock!

Andy: 1:10:00

break a leg! What The fuck are these guys

Ronnie: 1:10:06

doing

Sean: 1:10:07

fuck are these guys doing

Ronnie: 1:10:09

to my act? Yeah, I think like,

Sean: 1:10:13

yeah. I think that it, like, when you're that successful touring as a live comic, why would you Give that up to do. You know, this show.

Ronnie: 1:10:23

But I think the thing to keep in mind,'cause then you would kind of go, well yeah, Andrew Dice Clay. I would hang out with Andrew Dice Clay. Like if you're that person in that time thinking like, yeah, successful guy, but this guy is Andrew Dice Clay. But he's seemingly not. I mean,'cause he's basically asking people. And then whenever he finds that they don't have a car, he sort of like goes away from them. He's like trying, he doesn't seem cool. Like he doesn't seem like, which is that sort of thing that is like, wait, this guy gets chicks, you know? And cause you're like, I don't think he gets chicks. And then he's like, yeah, da, da, da. And he's like, does he get chicks? But then every example, cause even in two, he does a thing. He like. Comes on to these women when they go to the bar in a way that's like, oh, I don't think that worked it's an interesting dynamic because it doesn't feel like He is victorious with his the things that he does so it's interesting to sort of You're trying to figure out is this guy Even though he's sort of this person in the real world when he goes out is he successful or is it you

Andy: 1:11:27

this is a Fantastic point, Ronnie, because it is like, and that's part of the reason that character, I feel like I'm barely invested in John at the end of this pilot, other than the thing you're sort of saying, of like, this is a character in pain from the credits on. That character is like an example of usually they would try and find a way to buy it, buy it back in network television at this time. They don't really buy it back. He seems like a buffoon. The, the lady sort of goes, I've had it with you and turns on him at a certain point. Nonetheless, there's no real drop to that character the way you're saying in terms of like going like, Oh, he, he like basically told too much of his story and we see that he is in pain. or He told too much of his story. and We see that. You know.

Sean: 1:12:10

I feel like there is a moment of that. because that to me is what makes that character work. Is that he's not Dice Clay just going I'm the greatest thing ever! He's, he's I don't know who that is. He's weak and sad! And like there's a moment at the very end where he says Did they show the thing where I ran into a burning building and saved somebody? And they go, no. And he goes, yeah, that's good because I told him not to show that. Like, clearly he's lying. and Yes, that's true. And, and, And I guess that was the overall takeaway I had from that guy was like, this is 100 percent like, neurotic insecurity and building up your

Andy: 1:12:50

I guess I would have liked more of that drop, in story about his breakup as it is. Which I think is, he's saying that she was jealous. Implying that he was, you know, cheating on her with, I assume a lot of other women, but that only kind of bolsters his mythology more. And I would have preferred some story where he's talking about it. And then she left and she said. You know, that I was, you know, whatever it was, whatever, whatever the issue was, that was like something that showed his vulnerability,

Sean: 1:13:20

And she said I would by the time you read these lines, I would say, you'll I'll be gone, but you can't read,

Ronnie: 1:13:25

right? And you can't read like, but even to your point on that, on the last thing is interesting because even in that it didn't seem to me, I didn't read it as such. Where he's going, Hey, I, this thing, I'm lying cause I'm insecure, but I'm trying to sort of like, uh, say this thing that impresses these people. I read it more, and maybe this is a bad read, where he sort of comes out and he's doing this last ditch effort thing that's like, Hey, um, the, uh, Red, the girl who he's calling Red. And he's like, I mean, did they do that thing about the burning building? Ah, you know, I'm a hero. And it's like, huh? Uh, nothing. All right. Hey, you want to go get this thing or whatever? Like, as opposed to sort of this thing where it's like this last ditch effort to sort of like make himself look good in front of the group as opposed to this thing that I'm going to tell this lie. Now, it doesn't really work because he doesn't sell it specifically to anyone. So it's not like he's like saying this thing and looking like, or like looking to the girl specifically like, and she doesn't do the thing being like, uh, whatever. It's just sort of like a thing that he says, it kind of hangs a little bit and then they leave. I as when he,

Andy: 1:14:37

this great let's

Sean: 1:14:38

gang up

Andy: 1:14:39

on

Ronnie: 1:14:40

Sean. Sean

Andy: 1:14:41

couldn't be more wrong. I really feel like you and I

Ronnie: 1:14:44

Honestly, as an archaeologist, you need to do some more digging. Indiana Jones, you are not.

Andy: 1:14:49

That character's name is Kate McCarron. It's played by Isabella Hoffman. and uh, Since we're sort of on her, what is everybody's take on that?

Ronnie: 1:14:59

Also, just for the listeners at home, if you're wondering why I don't know anybody's names and Andy and Sean seem to know everybody's names, they also have papers and stuff with this information. I'm just going off the dome.

Andy: 1:15:10

I didn't set myself up that way either. I am a

Ronnie: 1:15:20

I didn't set myself up that way either. You guys did that. You put me on this Dear John

Andy: 1:15:24

have an Isabella

Sean: 1:15:27

have an Isabella Hoffman tattoo on my left shoulder. So, I mean, we can talk more about all these characters cause that's, that's basically all that happens in this scene after Uh, Mercer.

Andy: 1:15:40

by Jane Carr.

Sean: 1:15:42

comes back into the room, then all we do is we get introduced to each of these characters. That's the whole rest of the episode. is just a long scene of This is who I am, this is what I did. You

Andy: 1:15:55

who I am, this is what I All they do in the pilot is the thing that all executives ask you to do, which is just like, well, more about their backstory. What's their, wants? What are their pains? What are their, you know, what give us everything that the audience needs. And that is basically what the pilot is. And yet they cut into their own time so much that it does feel like towards the end, it's like, I've heard some details, but I don't really.

Sean: 1:16:29

idea that a pilot is supposed to tell you what the show is going To be going forward, And I feel like this pilot i'm like, okay So next week half of them will still be there a new bunch of people will come in and they'll all just Tell their stories and we'll keep doing that, you know, I did not No, no, I'm just saying, like, it doesn't give me any idea of where the show goes after

Andy: 1:16:51

Well, that is what's fascinating, and I can see your impulse to watch episode two, which was something that I, I actually would be interested in watching a few more episodes of this. So I don't know if we do that for the Patreon. I also would be interested in watching the original British show, because you were sort of, uh, referring to kind of like, is it more kind of British style, kind of play it broad or whatever. and See that? You haven't watched the original, have you? but yeah, it's very, it's very odd the amount of time they spend explaining who they are, that I don't have a, that much of a vibe of where it's going at all. it's kind of the opposite all of us being improvisers, of, Scenes tend to work better, and they sort of say when it's not a uh, transactional scene or something, because, uh, you should give characters history, so you can kind of, you're starting, hitting the ground running. And there is something that feels a little bit muted and, and like it doesn't have momentum, just in the fact that it's like these people meeting. And then we're slowly introducing their interactions with each other. And it's almost like the five of them and us are trying to figure out at the same time. are these people worth my continuing to watch? And I don't know what the argument is that they are in this pilot.

Ronnie: 1:18:10

Well,

Andy: 1:18:11

other than Jed Hirsch is in it.

Ronnie: 1:18:13

it's like that it's, it is like if you have ever conceptually came up with an idea for a show and you're like, oh, you know, by episode three I could do this idea, you know, and blah, blah, blah. And so you think that there's this thing where, oh, I'm, and at another point, I'm going to be able to sort of expand upon this character or like give a little more tidbits about this character that maybe you can't disclose in the pilot. Now, you know, all the time people tell you, put the stuff in the pilot, you know, but what's interesting about this is there are elements. To where it could feel like, Oh, okay, cool. Like they're keeping some of these people's, uh, backstory, something close to the chest and throughout the course of this, maybe even this first season, like they'll expand upon those in a way, but even watching the second episode, they're off and running. It's like, we don't, we're already a gang, you know? So it's really interesting because. it is like even in this pilot where it's like, well, here, you know, uh, my, I'm John and this is what happened to me. And then it's like your story. And the woman's like, I don't want to say anything about mine. I'm, I'm about to, no, I'm not saying it. So it's like, okay. So you go, you assume that her story is just a regular story. It's like not funny. So they go, not yours. And then the guy is like. Oh, okay, like, oh, you know, the, my wife, she, so on and so forth. It's like, okay, cool. This guy cheated. So obviously his story and then it's like, all right, this guy. Now his is funny, so we have to delve into these and then the older ladies, her, her setup is funny, so we dig into that, but it truly is like, it's like, this is just a sort of backstory for essentially the overarching thing, which is a bunch of, uh, lonely, sad people who don't have anybody else. Who sort of get their strength from one another because in the second it that's

Sean: 1:20:12

why we're doing this podcast, by the way.

Ronnie: 1:20:14

So it's so it's interesting because it's like this is the catalyst so to speak but they don't actually dig into that in a way that makes it feel As, I'm going to use the word powerful, but in, or just even as specific in a way, as opposed to, well, this is how we got here, but this only serves as a linchpin to sort of get us into what this essentially is, which is, a multicam comedy of a bunch of sort of like kooky people. And then you get to sort of like experience their different styles of kookies in these different scenarios under the guise of, but we all came together because we're all divorced. Even though that doesn't play as, I mean, I don't know, maybe it does if you watch more episodes, maybe that comes in a lot more than what it feels like, but it doesn't feel like that becomes like an overarching thing that they keep hanging on to. It just feels like sort of superfluous.

Sean: 1:21:04

like, This is why they came together, but it doesn't really matter. It Could have been that their, their names were all the same. or something

Andy: 1:21:10

like So it's not the structure of the show. is not as based on their meeting every week in, in a room and talking about stuff.

Ronnie: 1:21:17

they're meeting in a room and talking about stuff or talking about their divorce or what they're doing and their divorce. They're coming together. And they might start from the room, but then they will go off or they'll do

Sean: 1:21:30

something They've become friends and they have

Ronnie: 1:21:32

become friends or even not even friends. They've become, uh, they've become responsive, dependent and responsible or the feeling of responsibility for other people. Sort of. Cause even in the second episode, like when they go to the bar, they're like, Oh, where's so and so he's supposed to be here. And the guy's like, I don't know. He was on the phone and he was all sad and crying and stuff said he couldn't make it. I don't know. I'm checking out the chicks. Right. And he's like doing that thing. So they're like, we got to go to his house. So they go to his house and

Sean: 1:21:59

something actually happens in the second

Ronnie: 1:22:02

episode. essentially, but it's basically like, okay, cool. we're going to go over to his house to check on him. So then Judd and, uh, Red goes over to his, uh, goes over to his house.

Andy: 1:22:16

Kate! Isabella Hoffman! Come on,

Ronnie: 1:22:19

Judd and Red go over to his apartment. And he's like sad and crying and then there's like and it's interesting because if you watch episode 2 I think you would also have problems with it because the Sort of catalyst of what he's sad about doesn't really get resolved in a way and even in the end They still do stuff that reinforces what his problem is, but then they just sort of Black screen fade like we're all together and then it's like the end of the episode So you're like but he's happier even though he's still experiencing the same things. He was experienced

Andy: 1:22:53

That's kind of add, that again

Ronnie: 1:22:55

has friends. Right, and that's essentially the thing is like every it's like So, it feels like it's that type of

Andy: 1:23:01

It's dealing with melancholy. in a weirdly effective way.

Sean: 1:23:07

He used to be one, then he was two. Now he's one with everyone.

Andy: 1:23:11

don't get it.

Ronnie: 1:23:12

So, it's interesting in that way, where, yeah.

Andy: 1:23:17

you. looked like you got sad

Ronnie: 1:23:18

well, yeah, um, yeah, cause

Andy: 1:23:21

you're just remembering

Ronnie: 1:23:22

think we're all just sort of, I, maybe that's why we're late. Cause I think we're all just sort of looking for people to be like, right? Like we're

Sean: 1:23:29

you're

Ronnie: 1:23:29

like, we're like, we're all,

Andy: 1:23:31

I'm sure that was, the the heart of the

Ronnie: 1:23:33

pitch. Are

Sean: 1:23:34

there any sexual

Ronnie: 1:23:36

Yeah.

Andy: 1:23:37

She got her

Ronnie: 1:23:38

They said that a lot, way too many

Sean: 1:23:40

then that, That was a problem I had, was there was a couple of things like that where it was like, They kept going to the well on this one joke idea. And, and it was like, okay, I get it.

Ronnie: 1:23:52

Um, Like, And then kind of, and then there's like gags and stuff or stuff that I feel like is funny all the way throughout the read. But then the note you would get back is, yeah, man, but what is, what's the story?

Sean: 1:24:08

That's what I'm saying, like

Ronnie: 1:24:09

there's no like, yeah, they just sort of was like, cool, here's the setup of what the thing is. And then I hear the bunch of jokes till we get to the end. And you're like, oh, okay. Like, so to me, I'd be like. I could have did this. This is great. You know what I mean? But I also understand the note that it's like, yeah, but it's not sort of like the story structure of an actual good show. But you're like, okay, well, you know, in hindsight though, they're like, they had four seasons, you know, so.

Andy: 1:24:32

Well, that's, what's crazy! It was four seasons of television and it seems so. Thin. And I don't think it has to be thin, even with this set up. like the set up of these people in a room and they're depending on each other because you're right. The emotional grounding of it is there and it and it clearly was effective for for Ronnie Adrian as a little boy. but, it just seems so sort of slow and granted, it's a pilot.

Sean: 1:25:01

We got the numbers on the six year olds from South Carolina and we're doing gangbusters.

Ronnie: 1:25:07

They can't turn it

Andy: 1:25:08

seems like there's not enough emotional momentum. And so I guess, but you know, the survival of this show supports your experience of it, Ronnie, which is. people coming together, and depending on each other, and sharing their pain, even if it's in this superficial, kind of wonky, comedic way, was enough, clearly.

Sean: 1:25:36

It's weird, because, I look at that, and I know what you're saying, and I, obviously it worked, so they kept it going, which is which is fantastic for everybody except the guy who played the brother in law, although he then got to do other things. Um, but I also look at it and I go, well, it's not also like I look at it and I'm excited. I'm not like, Oh, these are fucking amazing characters. I can't wait to see more about them. Cause I didn't, I didn't feel that

Andy: 1:26:05

the, the milk toast, guy, Ralph. Ralph Drang, Harry Groner plays him, who is also uh, mayor. Richard Wilkinson. Buffy, uh, very scary character. Um, he's very good. He's funny. It's a good, that's, that's a more well defined character and to Ronnie's point about like, Alright, well, we're gonna hear more from him because we have a funny, thing that we built up about

Ronnie: 1:26:29

Yeah, we're the, this is the guy we're interested in writing for, you know, like that sort of writer room thing. Do we get to write for Ralph? Like, Oh, what if Ralph does this? And everyone's like, yeah, but what about Red's character? And you're like, ah, um, We

Sean: 1:26:41

have Judd Hirsch, why are we writing for everybody

Ronnie: 1:26:43

else? you know, like

Andy: 1:26:45

so like he's funny and clearly does he someone you could throw the ball to Kirk uh, Morris is that that character is, so broad and such a sort of shadowy reflection of, of dice. Uh, you

Ronnie: 1:26:57

know, you're just like, how can we, how can he sort of do his, so what would he say? I don't know. He sees a woman and he's like, yeah, like something, something. Let me put her in my toaster. And he was like, yeah, like, that's his character. It's like this sort of veil to of I think

Sean: 1:27:11

the two of us could get a beef

Ronnie: 1:27:13

roasted. You know what I mean? Like that sort of thing. It's like, okay, great. And it's like, and then, you know, the old woman writes herself cause it's like, well, she's old. So anything we make her do, it's

Sean: 1:27:22

that killed

Ronnie: 1:27:23

she's doing this. Right. Cause even in the second episode, it's like, she has a moment where it's like, this is a laugh moment because it's essentially like, but an older woman doing this, like, it's like that thing. So it's like easy. It's like easy to

Sean: 1:27:35

to

Andy: 1:27:36

and that was

Sean: 1:27:37

Bobby

Ronnie: 1:27:37

Right.

Andy: 1:27:38

Filbert played by Billy Bird, who's just another one of these people who's just like, has probably played this exact part in like, 900 different things. but yeah, so you have, so she's a good comedy ringer, uh, Ralph Drank's a good comedy ringer, Kirk Morris is very broad, but it's like, he's gonna drive the whole plot, clearly, so you kind of got him, it's very interesting that the, the Kate character, because it's so, Again, sort of like the, the Judd Hirsch character, not there. Like there's no take other than her being sort of, you know, keeping closed off. about what, and Do you have any memory? Do they eventually reveal? I mean, they

Ronnie: 1:28:16

Sorry, I couldn't tell you. I couldn't

Sean: 1:28:18

It's not a natural red.

Andy: 1:28:21

But

Ronnie: 1:28:21

That's the only thing that you know.

Andy: 1:28:23

They don't play, in this, in episode two, they don't play it as though they've already Discussed what her deal

Ronnie: 1:28:28

No, they, they, they're just right moving forward. They're like, cool, we're going to go out. Cause essentially it's now the people who were in the room at the end of one are just in there. So, you know, the main, those main four, the older woman and the guy who doesn't talk and, oh, and you know, the leader, obviously, and then they're like, all right, cool. We're going to go to a bar. So it's essentially being like, well, we're, we're going to go to a place where, where we meet people who are, experiencing the same things you are. in that sort of realm. So it's like, Oh, okay, sure. It's like, well, why aren't they here? But it's like, no, we're going to go somewhere else out. So they go to the thing and it's like, and then the, you know, obviously the people who are in this sort of like doctored space are like hot women. It's like, so it's like, yeah, okay. This doesn't really seem like the, the idea that these people are, are the same vibe as you all, whatever, but it truly doesn't matter because they're going to get out of there. This fast and then they spend most of the time with just uh, ralph red and john sort of anything and then Kirk shows up, obviously, to add a little bit more comedy to the thing, and then, um, and then the next day, the woman who leads the group, and Kate come back, and Kirk comes back, and they're like, look at us, right, and the older woman and the guy who does the talk isn't there, but it's like, The main, the highest people on the call sheet are all in a room together, we're, we're friends. Cause you also would go, well you don't have to be here, it's like, it's sort of that thing that is, it's just perpetuating the idea of being like, this is going further than us just being in a group where we meet up. Cause even the leader is here to sort of be like, just checking up on everyone.

Andy: 1:30:04

that's what kind of felt even on my first Viewing of it originally, why I think I didn't lock into it is because it feels so tenuous and it's interesting because in Cheers it's tenuous too. It's just people hanging out at a bar, but it's like those people already have their dynamic. The only one you gotta account for is, is Diane Chambers and she's, she, her life just fell apart. That's the reason she kind of locks into these

Ronnie: 1:30:30

I'm assuming you're going to do a Cheers episode at some

Sean: 1:30:32

I never, well, I've never even, I've never even heard of it. He keeps bringing it up. and I'm like, What is

Andy: 1:30:37

that? Okay, Sean, you're gonna love

Ronnie: 1:30:38

it.

Sean: 1:30:39

Yeah,

Andy: 1:30:39

Um, and so with this, it does, I re, cause I kind of even remember maybe getting to the second episode or checking in on that and just being like, why are these people still hanging out with each other? I don't understand. Like, clearly they wouldn't get along. Like, what's,

Ronnie: 1:30:53

But that's the show. It's like even I mean, I don't even know if you clocked it at the end of the pilot where the woman expresses. I don't we don't go past nine. So because they're about to leave and then the older woman stands up and says her punchline about her husband and he's like, well, maybe just 15 more goes.

Sean: 1:31:11

husband and she's like well maybe she can do that. Right, right, just off the

Ronnie: 1:31:19

a woman. Right, right, just out the blue, who hasn't spoken the entire time since.

Sean: 1:31:24

the

Ronnie: 1:31:25

in the background. Right, as the woman is trying to shuffle everybody out the door. And then she comes back like, maybe just 15 more minutes. But then, uh, the thing to clock is. at the end they do the shot of here's the clock on the wall before they kind of do the pan down to the two people coming out and it's like 11 15 so it's letting you show like hey we've been here for a while like it was so seemingly we told you that we were going to be out here by nine if it was nine say like 15 more minutes but we stayed over a full two more hours so we really started to connect in a way that you didn't get to see right like

Sean: 1:31:59

So you're saying

Ronnie: 1:32:01

you're

Sean: 1:32:01

saying you have to Clock. the clock,

Ronnie: 1:32:03

right? You had, and I had to stop it to see what the thing was.'cause it wasn't like a solid,

Sean: 1:32:07

I clock the clock. I did not clock what the clock was. Clocking, I didn't get the thing. About two more hours. And I think that's really hard to rely on. clock. to give you that these people, yeah,

Ronnie: 1:32:20

clock. not a digital clock.

Sean: 1:32:22

two second shot of a clock that you're supposed to go, Oh, they really? connected

Andy: 1:32:26

in Well, that's just if you're an attentive viewer. Like, yes, you burned seven minutes in the Alcoholics Anonymous scene. But at the end, if you see that clock, you know these people really

Sean: 1:32:36

have a big problem. We have no time left in the episode. How do we get all Time. Oh, time, time! We can use the clock! They can be together for a long

Ronnie: 1:32:43

period of Time, time, time! And that just came from one writer who was looking at the clock to be like, is it five yet? Or whatever time they get out.

Andy: 1:32:51

Here's the solution! Um, one other thing since you touched on it, with the old lady standing up and doing the, uh, he made me pull his chariot thing. And then they're all immediately like, ooh, let's Let's stay. Let's listen to this. Especially the leader of the group, uh, Louise, uh, it's Louise,

Sean: 1:33:10

She's the one who always wants to know about sexual

Ronnie: 1:33:12

Yes.

Andy: 1:33:13

Louise, Yes. But what's interesting is Louise's story is this thing that's, that's like her husband had strange desires involving a camera, stiletto heels, and a bullwhip. And the group is kind of like Oh, and We don't want to

Sean: 1:33:28

that really cracked me up. Like, this. is, this is a weird, this is such a crazy, weird

Andy: 1:33:33

And They're like, Oh, we're uncomfortable. We don't want to hear it. And like, Kirk is the only one who's sort of. To his credit, you know, not kink shaming. her. He's just sort of

Ronnie: 1:33:41

like, what's the

Andy: 1:33:42

problem? And Everyone else is sort of like, oh, we don't want to hear about it. Obviously. And It's like, well, it's obvious if she didn't want that, but she's sort of just stating it as though you get it.

Ronnie: 1:33:52

Right.

Andy: 1:33:53

And so it's like if that's the room stance then when you get to the chariot thing, how come it's like, all right Everybody buckle up. Let's hear it. It's like the same bit in the opposite direction

Ronnie: 1:34:04

don't think they do. I don't, I think they leave a lot of meat on the bone for some of the more eccentric characters for sure. Cause even, I don't even feel like, Ralph's character, we were fully done, fully exploring his thing, but they sort of like go. We don't have that much time so they kind of move on to stuff or in a way so because even the second episode like I said it's like oh okay it's like oh this didn't really get resolved in a way they kind of go hey it's tv baby we don't resolve stuff we just see you next week you know and it's

Sean: 1:34:32

like I I don't know if you, cause in the second episode, I do think there is a resolution to what happens but you have to clock the sundial they show at the very end of the second episode to understand how much time has gone

Ronnie: 1:34:46

What's funny is you say that, but the thing is a sundial would be very, very, it would make sense in sort of the plot point of what that episode is.

Andy: 1:34:55

of what that

Ronnie: 1:34:59

say that, but I think it is a very fitting reference for that episode.

Andy: 1:35:03

Oh my God, look at the time. looking at the shadow. the time. I knew it Um, one other detail about this uh, episode is uh, that it was directed by James Burroughs. Who is maybe the king of multicam directing, um, you know, it was Taxi, and I just can't even start to list all of his credits and all the things that he was the, he was part of the origin story of of sitcoms and uh, I do feel like it's, there aren't too many, even though we've sort of commented on some of the broadness of the performances, I don't think there are too many missteps that you can point to in terms of the tone or the blocking or anything like that. It does, It does flow from a directorial

Ronnie: 1:35:43

Yeah. No one's bumping into each other for sure. That blocking is incredible.

Sean: 1:35:49

a little faster? When you say the gladiator

Ronnie: 1:35:53

thing? I

Sean: 1:35:56

you're old, but just get up, get up.

Ronnie: 1:36:00

up.

Andy: 1:36:01

just to dig into the backstory that John does mention, his origin story is. that Mike Roberts's old friend, who I get the sense was in the service, came home. He was his, I don't, I couldn't figure out if he was saying he became his best friend after he moved to town. I think he was originally his best

Ronnie: 1:36:20

friend. I think he was originally his friend. Okay. I mean, at least we knew that

Sean: 1:36:24

Right, But, but when he said, this is one of those jokes I thought they went to way too often, when he goes, then she slept with a guy who I thought was my best friend. And the woman goes, why? And he goes, we went to basketball games together. And Oh, you meant.

Andy: 1:36:41

you mean, why did she leave me? she left me for a man that I thought was my best friend. Why we used to go to basketball games. Oh, you mean, why did she leave me? Did I phrase that badly? It's such a soft joke. It's such a sort of unfinished joke.

Ronnie: 1:36:56

joke. Mm-Hmm.

Andy: 1:36:57

this is the second time

Sean: 1:36:58

got Right. That's what I

Andy: 1:36:59

And so it's like, again, maybe they were trapped into it. with that character, what feels like the direction you're going in there with the previous joke? Is she's someone who doesn't get things? like, she's like, maybe not as far as a coach or a woody, but like in that direction. But they're like clearly going, no, no, no. She just misphrases. She has a little bit of awkwardness. And I'm like, alright, that's not a strong comedic

Ronnie: 1:37:24

game, but here is

Andy: 1:37:25

a marginal amount of,

Ronnie: 1:37:27

but here is why I think now there's a problem because you see that and that's your interpretation of it. And, and, and it's let you know, Oh, maybe they didn't rather give her enough of a thing or because my interpretation then would have been. it's sort of you say the thing because when he said the thing earlier, then she got really snappy about it and they had like a real thing about it. So in that one, my interpretation is like because she was sort of fiery about their back and forth and him being nitpicky and it's like, all right, that sort of thing when she said that. I was reading it more just like a bad read of the notion of just being like, Oh, did I misphrase that one wrong too? Like almost about to jumpstart another argument between the two. Yeah, sarcastic. But it just didn't read that way because it was like line, but we were already sort of like back to judge, you know what I mean? Like to where we didn't really get to like live in that, sort of have that moment

Andy: 1:38:18

which is just Also, to to that point, it's like if that's what you were going for, and it's like, well, it's too crowd, too many crowded. We have too many things to do. Well then, why aren't you cutting some stuff and making time? If this is what the show is going to be, is these little interactions and the sort of theatrical back and forth comedic moments, then, then let's develop those and They're rushing through those. weird parts.

Sean: 1:38:43

and you're saying that her read on that line was not good. Because Jim Burroughs is not a great

Ronnie: 1:38:52

Yeah. I mean, he was, he was too busy worrying about those blocking and stuff. He didn't actually give acting notes, which honestly, and then it, it probably kind of go, well, they have to seem interested in each other at the end, so then this can't be that combative. So then it sort of takes away a little bit of the personality of this

Andy: 1:39:09

I bet that was

Ronnie: 1:39:09

part and then, so now you're like, well, who is this person? You know? like her. Thing is so,'cause even the second episode is still very much like, oh yeah. Like she's there and she, and she doesn't do enough to sort of turn you off. But she's not the most interesting yet. Right.

Andy: 1:39:26

And I think it is sort of in the direction. of it like, I think you really put your finger on, like well, she's the romantic interest and then we want to see the chemistry between them. So we don't want to have her acting angry the way she does to Kirk. And that's the kind of thing, particularly at the time, that I think was even more prevalent was A, it was probably mostly male writers that didn't know how or didn't want to give the comedic ball to women. Two, that they, even when it was like a moment like that of like, oh, she's gonna be kind of sarcastic or hostile or whatever. Unless it's a very specific side character slot like Carla, then, on cheers again, Then, Then they're kind of like, well, she's romantic interest. We want her to be sweet and kind and empathetic. We don't want her to be this other version of a woman that's unpalatable to the audience in our minds. So it's like, well, then you kind of taken away. And I think they do the, did this two diverse characters over time. Also, it's like, well, then you've taken away what's going to be funny

Ronnie: 1:40:22

it.

Andy: 1:40:23

them.

Sean: 1:40:24

Right, Here, Here's one more thing I just want to point out. because, John tells this whole backstory and I just want to point out that when his wife kicked him out of the house, they were living in New Rochelle,

Ronnie: 1:40:36

which is,

Sean: 1:40:37

uh, of course, where Rob and Laura Petri, uh, lived on the Dick Van Dyke Show, Um, and it's known for, uh, being only 45 minutes from Broadway, and also it is a very philandering, town. That's the town that I grew up in and everybody is just sleeping with each other all the time. So

Ronnie: 1:40:56

you sleeping with each other all the time. There's a lot show. Do you think happening. Do you think so? Or, that

Sean: 1:41:06

was or, or you might be right. Or it's like somebody from there going, I'm just gonna reference my But yeah, you're probably right. It probably was a a reference to the Dick Van Dyke show, which I, I think we should, You know, at some point do the Dick van. Dyke show.

Andy: 1:41:19

I don't know that,

Ronnie: 1:41:19

You should have an at some point list just so you don't forget all your at some point shows you're gonna do.

Andy: 1:41:25

Remember when Dick Van Dyke trips over the, uh, the Ottoman and he goes, whoa, no, I've tripped!

Ronnie: 1:41:29

tripped! I've I've fallen and I can't

Sean: 1:41:32

get up because he's old. Yeah.

Ronnie: 1:41:35

I mean, he's still alive, so you might can have him on the show.

Andy: 1:41:39

That's true.

Sean: 1:41:41

Still going. at like

Ronnie: 1:41:43

he's like, and it's seeming like not stopping. Yeah.

Andy: 1:41:47

Now, I feel like this is sort of where we would wrap it up.

Ronnie: 1:41:50

You sure? You don't want to keep going? This is like, what has it been, like three hours? Like,

Andy: 1:41:54

hour

Sean: 1:41:55

I was like, this is going to be a quick podcast because there wasn't that much that happened in the episode. So this was great.

Andy: 1:42:01

It's a long. Windbags. Um, so, uh, this has been really fun. Thank you so much, Ronnie, for joining us. with Your very favorite show, Dear

Sean: 1:42:13

Yeah, I can't believe that's the show that you love more than any other

Ronnie: 1:42:17

show. I mean, sometimes Cesar just speaks to you. So

Sean: 1:42:20

I see you changed your t shirt from Brother Son to Dear

Ronnie: 1:42:23

John. Yeah, you sold me on it. Uh, thank you for letting me go out and get it from the shop real quick.

Andy: 1:42:28

shop.

Ronnie: 1:42:28

From the TV

Andy: 1:42:29

so long, yet all the time in the world. if you would like to reach out to us, you can do so at copilots tv at gmail. com. Uh, Send your comments, questions, suggestions, anything you want. and if you'd like to reach out to us on social media, we're also at CopilotsTV on, uh, you know, all your local sources. Uh, feel free to join the Patreon. Maybe we'll be uh, doing a Dear John. Uh, UK episode, maybe we'll go to episode two like Ronnie did, who knows? and, uh, and every week we like to read a review or two. there, if you give us five stars on any platform, um, then we give you your pilot's wings. Um, those are, of course, not real pilot's wings. We're not sending anybody anything. They're just metaphorical pilot's wings that you enjoy.

Ronnie: 1:43:21

Do you find

Sean: 1:43:21

that

Ronnie: 1:43:22

confusing at all, No, I think even just hearing it now, that's what caught me up to why you were making flying references in the first place. Cause it was like copilot. I was like, Oh, cause at first I was like, yeah, I guess. But I'm like, what are you talking about? But now I, it caught me up. caught

Andy: 1:43:37

me up

Ronnie: 1:43:38

at first. Now I'm caught

Andy: 1:43:39

Yes. And

Ronnie: 1:43:42

Yes. And I was like, he, he mentioned wings earlier. Was that

Sean: 1:43:46

you're thinking of all the shows that shoot two pilots and then only use one of them.

Andy: 1:43:51

So that being said, Sean is now going to read one of our, recent

Sean: 1:43:55

Yes. this is a five star review from somebody whose username is dog in profile photo, and there's no photo here, but I'm sure we could guess what it is. and it says, who can tell when they are serious? Fun podcast with a couple guys you think might be knowledgeable about TV pilots, but who can tell for sure? Out of the gate, they put up a great show and then torture us with Puchinski which I'll never forgive them for. So not a glowing review, but congratulations on getting your pilot's wings, dog in photo.

Andy: 1:44:33

Thank you all for joining us. If you could please bring your seats to their upright position.

Sean: 1:44:42

Okay, it's the trays, not the seats that go

Andy: 1:44:45

the seats go upright, too. They always they always hassle you about the seats. and then They they say, oh, press the thing, and then they kind of yank it behind you and

Sean: 1:44:51

I don't know. I'm on different planes from you, I guess.