3 - SPARTACUS BLOOD AND SAND and a Butt Sponge on a Stick

'Spartacus Blood and Sand' aired on STARZ in 2010. As of Dec '23 you can stream it on Amazon Prime, Youtube TV, STARZ, or find it on Apple TV and Google Play.

Featuring guest interview with Erin Cummings, who played Spartacus' wife, Sura, on the show.

Chapters

• 0:00 Intro
• 35:08 Start of Spoiler Section
• 38:39 End of Spoiler Section
• 1:22:22 Erin Cummings Interview Segment

Transcript

Sean: 0:00

Hey everybody, today we're gonna talk about a show called Spartacus, which aired on Starz. we recorded this episode a while ago, and afterwards we had an interview with the amazing Aaron Cummings, who plays Sura. In the show, the wife of Spartacus,

Andy: 0:16

we put a short segment of the interview we had with her at the very end of this episode. if you want to see that full Aaron Cummings video interview, sign up as a free member on our Patrion. We'll notify you when we put that. and other bonus content. We at some point recorded, us sort of talking in one episode about the next three episodes of Freaks and Geeks following the pilot. We're not sure exactly what we're going to be doing with Patreon or if there's any human being at all, who's interested in paying for even more. Subpar copilots content? I'm in! I've already sold it to Sean. but uh, go there, sign up as a free member. And you will be notified when the Patreon is activated. And Sean and I will be awash in riches.

Sean: 1:02

why didn't you go into advertising?

Andy: 1:05

I think it's pretty clear.

Sean: 1:09

Hey everybody, welcome to CoPilots. I am Sean Conroy and I'm Andy Secunda. On this podcast, we talk about TV pilots, the first episodes of television shows. Sometimes pilots become long running series. Others don't make it past that first episode.

Andy: 1:25

We're going to talk about all of them. The great pilots, the bad pilots, weird pilots, the forgotten pilots. We are TV writers, but it should be noted that we are the dumbest TV writers, you know, so all of these are just our dumb opinions.

Sean: 1:37

So dumb. so the show we watched this week was about the Roman Empire, and I'm curious to know what your background is in terms of like studying that stuff or being exposed to that

Andy: 1:51

Well, I am a, historian about that, that era of Rome. Uh, I taught a college, class and, um, I had no idea. Yeah. So I, I, I bring a lot of background to the, to the series and, and a lot of the authenticity issues bumped me from the beginning. Mm-hmm. Right. Um, no, I'm a complete, uh, ignorant. I'm generally an ignorant

Sean: 2:10

person. So you didn't like study because when I, when I was in high school, we had to study. Either Latin or Greek, like it was required? Oh, no,

Andy: 2:18

definitely not part of my, so

Sean: 2:20

that was like a part of the academics all through high school, was all

Andy: 2:24

that stuff. Is that, is that a Catholic school

Sean: 2:27

thing? I don't know. I never studied Latin to be clear, by the way. Right. I studied Greek and stuff. It's about studying the origins. Even more dead language than Latin. I studied, so that was useful. but we were exposed to all that Latin history stuff. And you know how you're in high school and you're like, oh my God, this is so boring. I wish there was a way to make this more interesting. Mm-hmm. And I just think if we had had stuff like this when I was in high school, it would've been way more compelling to hear about the Roman legions and so forth.

Andy: 2:59

A lot of guys running around with the, with the dildo on their head that I would've been in a

Sean: 3:03

hundred percent. Like, oh, wait a

Andy: 3:04

minute. Yeah, I had this all wrong.

Sean: 3:06

These guys were nuts. Dead language, my ass. You're speaking my language. Sure.

Andy: 3:14

um, yeah, I don't, I have the barest minimum and I was hoping you could, uh, you could bring to bear some perspective on what seemed authentic and what didn't. Well,

Sean: 3:21

I think they do. Okay. So we're talking about Spartacus, of course. which is based on a true story. Spartacus was a real guy who lived in, around the early seventies bc. Mm-hmm. So he was a lot of

Andy: 3:38

bell bottoms and a lot of flas collars. And, uh,

Sean: 3:42

it was right after the summer of love and right before the assassination of Julius Caesar. Um, no, it was sort of as the, as the republic was coming to a close and as the empire was rising, like that was what happened when Caesar was killed, was that it became an empire and no longer a republic. And that's one of the things I think the. Try to pay attention to on this show. Mm-hmm. Is that for example, Albinus? Yeah. Who is the father of a Lithia and the father-in-law of gl. Do you know who I'm talking about? Yes. He is a senator, which was a huge deal in Rome at that time or in the, in the Roman Republic. Right. Because they're not in Rome, obviously. They're in Capua, and so everybody is sort of classified according to their political position. Like blabber is a legist and I don't know exactly what that means, but that's, or it puts him in charge of some certain number of men in the Roman army. Right, like a general of some sort. Right. And. You know, there's, there's a lot of attention to little historical details that we read about when I was in high school that were totally dry and boring. Mm-hmm. But I think they're presented in a way in this show where it suddenly becomes very compelling. Um, there's even a, there's even a thing that they do consistently through the whole series where people have conversations while they're shitting in the public toilets, and then they wipe themselves with a stick that has a sponge on the end of it, Uhhuh, and put that back in the toilet. Like that was, and there's a, there's a Latin word for that stick, and I don't remember what it is, but that was what people did at that time. And you kind of don't get that when you're just reading a history book in high school. You know,

Andy: 5:35

that's a Latin word for, I'm gonna have some major bacterial clues. Bacterial

Sean: 5:41

situation on my plate spreads

Andy: 5:42

so quickly.

Sean: 5:43

Ter mm-hmm. Is the stick. It's a sponge on a stick. Sponge on a stick. Okay.

Andy: 5:49

Sean, you know, we shouldn't do the thing where you stick it back into sewage, but maybe sponge on a stick has some, uh, you know, maybe we got a thing going on here. Yeah. Little, little giveaway.

Sean: 5:58

If you go to our website, you can buy a, a sponge on a stick with Andy in my face on it.

Andy: 6:05

That's right. The co-pilot sponge on a stick.

Sean: 6:08

But anyway, I do think that they try to pay attention to historical detail and be specific about stuff on this show. I do

Andy: 6:14

wonder was. Steven De Knight who was, uh, the thing I'm always fascinated about is like, well, how did this show come to be? How did the person who sort of was at the helm of it, get to be there? Because prior to this, I believe he was on sort of mostly on Buffy and on Angel, which I was a huge fan of Smallville Smallville. But was he, an ongoing writer on Smallville? He was Superman. Oh. Well see that in internet. He's a real man of all trades. No, I don't,

Sean: 6:39

I I just know that that was one of his credits

Andy: 6:41

with Smallville. I know exactly. It was, and it seemed like he was. From there, it seems like Daredevil came after this mm-hmm. Where he had a period where he ran Daredevil and he did run this. Did he start as the showrunner on this? He was the creator of this. Mm-hmm. Obviously. and sort of how did he position that? And I'm assuming based on where my sense of where Stars was at that moment is that it was one of those sort of mad many situations in terms of like, AMC was looking for something. They were trying to,

Sean: 7:08

they were trying to brand themselves. Right.

Andy: 7:10

They were trying to break out and that's when they always take chances on people who are maybe earlier in their careers. Mm-hmm. and on projects that are a little bit off the beaten path or a little bit, you know, weirder. Mm-hmm. And so I wonder, he was the first show owner of this, or are we not sure? I believe he was. So it's just like handing a guy a show who had never run a show before and on such a weird thing. So that's my question. Number one is like the positioning of that and, and what his experience was, but then. Beyond that, I'm curious if it was like, we wanna do something in this space, because the thing that I said to Shawn, that's me, Shawn,

Sean: 7:46

is, by the way, I'm Shawn Conroy.

Andy: 7:48

Oh. And I'm Andrew Secunda. Yes. We're listening to, you guys must have been so confused.

Sean: 7:52

We're listening to each other talk and you are listening to us on this podcast. That's

Andy: 7:57

the, that's the pecking order of this Roman army. Mm-hmm. Uh, we are the leg goddess. Is that what it's called? The ter. Oh, we are the ter. What does, what does that one mean?

Sean: 8:07

That's the sponge on a stick.

Andy: 8:09

Oh, I see. Right. That's what he just said. I'm curious about also, you're talking about the authenticity was because here's, here's just to cut to the chase, Shawn w had been talking to me about this. This is one of, one of the Shawn Rex. It's a Shawn recommendation.

Sean: 8:26

I like just saying Rex, cuz it could go either way more like Shawn recommends it or it's a fucking wreck.

Andy: 8:32

Right. You know, or some kind of Latin spin of Shawn Rex. I like that one too. And piss Rex, um, king. That means king. Oh, is that what it means? Yeah. Oh, there you go. He really does know his Latin. Mm-hmm. never took Latin, by

Sean: 8:45

the way.

Andy: 8:46

Oh, right, you took Greek. Mm-hmm. Um, he really does know his Greek. I

Sean: 8:50

actually do

Andy: 8:51

fine. and, and the history of things that he's recommended to me. Some. Uh, most of them probably are in the category of what I would deem maybe dad trash tv, like things that dads would like.

Sean: 9:09

Can you give a specific example

Andy: 9:10

of that? Uh, strike back. Yes. That's

Sean: 9:13

a good one. We'll get to that one at

Andy: 9:16

some point. So this one, so, but, but a, but a lot of them, and the ones that have that are the ones that I've followed up on and I stand by, which I think I've said already numerous times is like, you know, the wire being the most quintessential one dead wood, which is, you know, these are ones that a lot of people recommend to you, but Shawn was like on it. Like, you have to wa I know I've been pushing. You have to watch these. And um, of course he is a hundred percent right. And this was another one that came up quite a bit and. So I, in my head you're like, this is

Sean: 9:47

gonna be like those other shows. This is gonna

Andy: 9:49

be the Roman version Uhhuh, the Roman Gladiator version. Yeah. Of the wire Uhhuh. And Long, the short of it. It is not it.

Sean: 9:58

It is not, it is not at all the Roman version. And what

Andy: 10:01

I was shocked about, as I was just saying Nashan before we started, is it's 300. It is a hundred percent. They saw the success of 300. Mm-hmm. And they were like, well, let's do a TV show. And so my, my curiosity is did they have that as a target in mind, right. And brought it to Steven tonight? Or did Steven tonight come to them and say, I wanna do 300?

Sean: 10:26

Do we know what year? 300 came out, Kevin? Uh,

Andy: 10:30

2006. So there you go. It was perfectly situated. Right.

Sean: 10:34

So they had been 2006. It was a enough time to say this was a success. Let's do something like this, because that's how networks are. It takes a couple years to get things in process. So it may be that they said to him, this is what we want to do, right? Or it may be that he was like, I took Latin in high school. Can we do a show about a terria?

Andy: 10:53

And then his friend said to him, you took Greek, you can't, you go in there, you're gonna get your ass

Sean: 10:57

to, and he said, actually, I really do know Greek.

Andy: 11:02

So these are, these are the things that I'm curious about. Mainly, this is really my headline. Mm-hmm. It's so boldly, and I, I believe you having faith in your taste that the show develops. And even in this episode, it's incredibly fun and ridiculous and mm-hmm. But that it develops into more of, you know, a, complex. Complex that's Yeah. Complex, you know, is telling of that story. And it's not just panning with a globule of blood as it falls to the, to the ground. No.

Sean: 11:36

But that stays consistent through the whole series, through all four seasons of the series. And I do think that's one part of it that I really enjoyed and was very fun. I mean, look, I'll be honest, I worked running Mr. Pickles for Four Seasons, and that show was a horror show. It was literally a horror cartoon. Yeah. And, People might not know this, but animators love to draw blood and bones and people being ripped pieces. Yeah. That's just a thing that people really have fun with. So we did a ton of that on my show and so I think that kind of ruined my ability to look at something and be horrified. But I think, and I know you're saying it's like 300, like Dunno, war it, it's like 300, which it is, but it's such a much more extreme and cartoony version of 300 Than 300 even was,

Andy: 12:32

well, how do you mean cartoony? Because it definitely, is it more extreme? It's been, it's been a bit since I've seen 300

Sean: 12:38

I I. Me too. But I just don't think they had these crazy slow motion, relentless, like

Andy: 12:44

it was Zack Snyder. So

Sean: 12:46

skipping ahead a little bit. Yeah. There's the scene at the end of this episode where the character that starts by fighting with Spartacus is in the arena by himself, right? And he looks at Spartacus and he smiles, and then he gets his throat slit, right? And blood sprays everywhere, right? And they cut to Spartacus being horrified by this guy's throat spraying blood everywhere, right? Then they cut back to this guy who is still spraying blood, like the excess of going back to his. Slit throat spewing blood. And I could

Andy: 13:26

be wrong, and I don't remember, it's way over the top to me if it's when they cut back to it in the present, later in the show or if it's there. But that is, I believe, the moment when we follow the, you don't stay on the guy. We, we pan with the blood watching it fall to the

Sean: 13:40

floor and scratch. There's a lot of moments like that in the end of this episode. Right.

Andy: 13:45

it's like they're making, they're turning this kind of ridiculous gore into the part of the artistry, if you will, of the show.

Sean: 13:53

Right, right. which I really. enjoyed it. You know, again, we're getting way ahead, but there's the moment when Spartacus goes to fight the four gladiators at the end. Yes. And of course he's successful because he's Spartacus and we know he is gonna come out winning, but the way he dispatches each of them Yeah. Is incredible. And one of them, he chops the guy's leg off. Amazing. Then while the guy is still upright and the leg is flying away, he chops the other leg off. Sure. Because of course, what else would you do, but chop both legs off, you know?

Andy: 14:26

Of course. if you chop one leg off, you're not a craftsman. Mm-hmm. but whatever the case, uh, yeah. but that's

Sean: 14:32

what I mean. I think 300 did some of that. Like I'm just thinking immediately. Cuz the other thing they do a lot in this show is the slow motion thing where these things are happening very slowly. And I'm thinking of that moment of, by the way, it's Gerard Butler in 300. Right? Right. He's Leonis. I believe so. So I just wanna plug again my podcast that I'm doing called Butler Did it, which is just an examination of the entire Gerard Butler ra. We're gonna go through every film of his. Um, I've been,

Andy: 15:03

we also have a sponge on the stick with the Yeah. With the Gerard Butler's face on it. But

Sean: 15:07

there's that moment where the messenger comes to tell him that the, I don't know, the Spartans need to surrender or something, and he. Screams, this is spoa and then kicks the guy into a pit. Do you remember that at all?

Andy: 15:23

in

Sean: 15:23

very slow motion. Of course, I remember that it guy falls backwards into the thing and there's no blood or anything, but it's like they took moments like that and just turned them all the way up on this show. But here's what's

Andy: 15:37

crazy. Mm-hmm. Cuz I was, I'm a fan of Frank Miller and I'd read the, the graphic novel 300 before I had seen the movie. And so I was like, oh, this is interesting. And what's interesting is like, that's a perfect example of a moment of, and maybe I'm, maybe I'm misreading the moment, it's a graphic novel. It's open to interpretation, but he kicks the guy in there and he says, this is Spaa period. And the guy's like, what do you, you, you think he can get away with

Sean: 16:01

this? And he basically, and you think he shouldn't have said period at the end of the sentence. Yeah.

Andy: 16:05

And I was like, that's weird. Why would he spell out per the word period?

Sean: 16:08

No, you're saying in the novel. He did not exclaim, he just

Andy: 16:11

said it. No. And of course does Zack Snyder, um, you know, following his own inimitable style, does Vince Lomo and has him Yes. Is spot. Which of course, you know, to Zach Snyder's credit, that became the most memorable moment. Iconic in the thing. Iconic, yeah. But to me it was like, no, he kind of took some of the coolness out of it cuz he just calmly kicked him into his death. This isparta, get in there.

Sean: 16:33

Do you know where you are? You're in Spota period.

Andy: 16:37

You're doing a little bit of a Trump. There

Sean: 16:40

you are in Spaa. This is Spota. It's wonderful. A lot of people are

Andy: 16:43

telling me this Isparta. Um, so I am Spartacus. So, uh, so anyway, yes, While you, you are, I'm sure. Correct. And that they take it from a seven to a 10. Yeah. I do think it's just like, it's, without question like that kind of slow-mo freeze frames, fake CG backgrounds, everyone seeming like they're floating in a cartoon that is like quintessential Zach Snyder 300. Yeah. Who is building on quintessential Robert Rodriguez. and it's, clearly what they were like, were, you know, we're just taking it. And it's interesting to me that it's like, it's unashamed shammed, So, uh, I just find it fascinating. Yeah. And the other, the other person that's sort of in the, in the rundown I think would explain some of the tone and the style and the gore is Sam Ramey. Yeah. Who's one of the executive producers. whereas Rick Jacobson. Mm-hmm. And so, I don't know how much you have to bear on that. Jacobson

Sean: 17:45

worked with Roger Corman. I mean, that's where he came from. Oh, interesting. From, he got a, he got a directing job from Roger Corman when he was 21 years old. And that was the beginning of his directing career.

Andy: 17:55

So because he did Cleopatra 25, 25, he worked on Xena.

Sean: 18:00

right. So that's the other connection here. Is that Robert Tapper? Yes. Who is the co-creator of the show with Night Uhhuh. His roommate in college was Ivan Ramey, brother of Sam Ramey. I see. So Robert Tapert. Was involved with the original Evil Dead was the producer of The Evil Dead. So that I think, explains some of the background too. He's also married to Lucy Lawless. Right. Which explains her

Andy: 18:31

involvement in this. And Sam Raimi was obviously instrumental in Xena. So, so all these things tie together as like pointing in the direction of kind of, uh, whereas all of Ram's prior stuff, including Evil Dead, has a certain lyrical kind of intentional sardonic comedy, even though it's dark mm-hmm. To the violence in the gore. This is, tastes like, that's great, we're gonna do that, but we're taking out all of the irony and it's

Sean: 18:59

just, well, I, here's what I would say about that, which is, and this doesn't help with the pilot, but going forward, it's actually a very funny show. Interesting. Like John Hannah is amazing on this show. Yeah. And he's only introduced at the very end of the episode in this one. but he's, he's Pretty great. And it's, and he's just a bitingly funny

Andy: 19:20

guy. Yeah. And, uh, yes, he's, he's one of those guys who's just always solid whenever he is in something. And I kind of was like, oh, that's interesting that, and I guess, do you think this was sort of early in his arc now? He'd already been a journeyman for a while, right? Yeah.

Sean: 19:34

And had done a lot in four weddings and a funeral, like he was, you know, um, but this was the big payoff for being a journeyman for so long, was that he got to do a couple of seasons of this show. Right. But let's, let's go back to the, because I think this show, this episode of Spartacus, like Gaul, according to Julius Caesar, can be divided into three parts. Mm-hmm. And the first part is what happens with Spartacus that makes him end up. Being enslaved. Mm-hmm. And that's kind of the first, I guess, like two thirds of the episode. Yes. Which

Andy: 20:14

is impressive that they don't, we talk about the structure of pilots, it's very well structured. Mm-hmm. Because part of my problem, even with, uh, with the movie Gladiator, which this is

Sean: 20:26

also sort of, even the music in this is like exact, which is why it's a

Andy: 20:30

genius idea to, for a series. just sort of

Sean: 20:33

building on it. I meant to look up who did the music on this, cuz I was like, there has to be some connection to whoever was the composer on Gladiator.

Andy: 20:40

it's like even in Gladiator, to me, my reaction to Gladiator as much as I appreciated Gladiator. Mm-hmm. To me, it's sort of like the moment spoiler, I learned that Russell Crow, uh, is both the two, the sort of bookend moments. I'll give them a show like they've never seen. Mm-hmm. And, uh, and him cutting the guy's heads off with two swords at the same time. Right. that's what the whole movie should be as far as I'm concerned. Right. And that kind of is what this

Sean: 21:04

series is. Absolutely. Absolutely. It's that it's that crazy like adolescent male violence, you know? Right. Um, which I find very fun. I am ultimately just an adolescent male. Yes. You know? Yes. And it's, and, and, and I think to, just to go back to the 300 thing, and this, you could go either way on this, but I really like it and it makes me, to me, it shows the underlying humor of the show is that I know I. 300 was obviously animated and CGI and whatever, but I feel like this is such a much cheaper, less convincing version of that. Well,

Andy: 21:47

this is one in every respect. This is one of the things that I is both astonishing about it. Mm-hmm. And I kind of admire about it is right from the first overhead shot. And I assume that, are they in Rome at the end or is that a sort Outline? Outline? No, Capua. Capua, that's right. Mm-hmm. Uh, the overhead shot of the arena. And it's like, there's so many shots in this that are obviously cg, but most of them fall into the category of more of a 300 style, where it's like we're intentionally heightening the colors, making everything very contrasty. the actors pop out from the background in a sort of unreal way. We're intentionally creating this feeling of, comic, bookish, cartoonishness, cartoon. Yeah. And unreality, but in a way that makes it feel like this is an intentional style choice. Whereas there are a lot of shots and that first overhead shot is one of them where it's just like, I don't know, we only had 10 minutes to make this. We don't know. We didn't have time to fully

Sean: 22:45

render this. Think Stars didn't have a lot of money, you

Andy: 22:47

know? But what's amazing is, a lot of people will, it'll drive them crazy. Uhhuh, I'm someone, and this is how I kind of feel about, um, once Upon a, a time, did you ever see that TV show? No.

Sean: 22:59

I've seen Once Upon a Mattress. I don't know if you saw that. There's a pee. It's

Andy: 23:03

a spinoff. Okay. Uh, yes, that the old musical theater. I,

Sean: 23:06

I'm not gonna lie, I'm a big musical

Andy: 23:08

theater guy. No, I, I respect that. Yeah. weirdly one upon a mattress, far bloodier than Spartacus.

Sean: 23:13

Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah. But also just so

Andy: 23:16

cartoony. Yeah. Um, anyway, uh, once upon a time, they, they had a similar situation where it's like, okay, well this is a, a weekly I, i, 20, at least 22 episodes. I don't know if it was 24 episodes. a seasoned show. a lot of Disney characters, a lot of backgrounds, they go to other lands, tons of effects. They, there's certain shows that, that just approach it as like, I don't know. We're just going for it. We're gonna show you a big dragon. We're gonna show you a thing. Most of it's gonna look kind of questionable at best. Right. And that's just it. You're gonna be watching cartoon a lot of the time, and I'm kind of fine with them being ambitious and telling me the story that they want and, and, you know, let the effects fall where they may.

Sean: 24:00

Right. Well, I feel the same way. I, I, I really enjoy it. And one of the things I love about this show is it really makes me laugh because they'll show huge crowd shots of everybody in the Capua amphitheater. Right. Thousands of people, right? But it's all cartoons. Then they'll cut in on like nine of them that are real, that are so excited to be there that are real people. Yeah. And they'll do

Andy: 24:24

that thing to make it seem like a style choice, which also I think is very Zack Snyder, which is just like, look at all the people. Look at these. This amount of people. Look at these 10 people. But even that, oh, before you saw all of them, but do you only for a second. Now you see these people

Sean: 24:38

even that they do, I think effectively this episode,

Andy: 24:41

get the caterer outta that shot. Get the caterer. Okay, look at these nine people. Look at these nine

Sean: 24:46

people. Each of you needs to move your arms slightly differently in this shot because there's only nine of you and you all need to look

Andy: 24:53

different. Okay, well four of those people look the same as the pe, the people on the other side of the, one guy in the middle. But yeah, only look at the, look at these five people.

Sean: 25:02

But I do think even like I. It's that thing of like turning a weakness into a strength. Because there's a couple of moments in this episode where they do those kind of transitions. Like when Spartacus is leaving his, leaving his wife to go off to war with the Romans, and he sort of walks away from her and puts his helmet on and then it starts snowing and then it gets dark and then he's in a battle. And that just all happens in the space of like, well that eight seconds. That's

Andy: 25:35

my example of, because prior to that I was like, oh boy, this is gonna be a crazy ride of just terrible cg. And that's the moment that's like, Insane CG where nothing looks real, but it's a definitive, stylistic right choice, where it's like we are just doing this in like blending everything with cg. Mm-hmm. In a way that really feels like a stylistic choice. And

Sean: 26:02

maybe because I've watched the show a couple times before, I feel like that's true even in the scene before that, where he goes out to see her as the sun is rising, which clearly looks like somebody painted a sun on a sheet and then hung it up on the wall and put a lamp behind it.

Andy: 26:20

It does. In retrospect, Uhhuh at the moment, I was like, you're like, what are they doing? What's going on? Yeah. Yeah. And then it's when you see exactly that shot that you're talking about when he is walking into the storm, then I'm like, oh, they're just right. They don't care. They're just fucking going for it. And

Sean: 26:34

then, uh, the other, which is awesome. Yeah. And the other, the other transition like that is there's a moment when we're in GL tent, I think. Yeah. And they kind of zoom in on the map. And then zoom out to the actual place. Yes. And then zoom back into His office or whatever Where he's with his wife. Um, and it all, again, it all happens in like four seconds and it's like zip, zip, zip. And I'm like, oh, that's interesting.

Andy: 27:04

And that was a moment where again, it's, and it's also very much a sign to the times and who they're appealing to, which is teenage boys like you, you and I. Mm-hmm. Not in, uh, not in body, obviously in body where like broken bones about to turn to dust, but uh, you know, in spirit. Right. For teenage boys. Right. and uh, what I wrote down on my notes is just like video game. Cause it just feels like you're like, uh, where am I? Let me get the map. Zoom out. Yes. Oh, okay. But that's where I am. Okay. I'm capturing, yeah. Okay. Back. And they do,

Sean: 27:34

I think they also do that when he's, when he is captured by the Romans and ends up on. The ship, they do something with the map and then they're in the ship with him right when he's chained up

Andy: 27:44

unconscious. Um, which is also a great, a fantastic way to sort of shortcut the storytelling with all of these devices. Well, it's

Sean: 27:52

like, it's like when in old movies or, you know, or Raiders of Lost Art. Yeah, I was gonna say Indiana Jones, where you just see the dots crossing the map, of course. And it's like, we don't have to see the guy flying the plane or getting in and out. It's just, okay, we were here now we're here. Right. And this was a transition. Yeah. You know. but the first two thirds of the movie is all about Spartacus. Where he was before he became, because we open on him in the coliseum or the amphitheater. I guess this is an amphitheater or not? The coliseum is, I think just in Rome. I'm not sure about that. Cause I took Greek, which I actually do know.

Andy: 28:25

Um, but where's the Parthenon?

Sean: 28:29

It's, uh, it's over by the, uh,

Andy: 28:32

the market. The gas station. Yeah. Um,

Sean: 28:37

so he's, he's, he's listening to the sounds of the fighting in the, in the arena. Yeah. And blood is dripping on him. And then the rest of it is just a flashback to how he ended up in that, in that position. So he's, he's in Thrace. The Romans want help with some tribe of barbarians. Mm-hmm. there, there's a whole meeting with the thracians where he speaks up even though he's not supposed to. Mm-hmm. And there's an elder there who spoiler alert later gets killed in the battle with the G gdi, I think they're called. Or the G gdi, I don't know. the elder says something like, I wish I had written it down, but it was like he said, I got it.

Andy: 29:22

Actually wrote down. It falls from his says mouth, says he speaks out of turn. Yet the truth falls

Sean: 29:26

from his mouth. And that's another thing I love about this show, is they sort of created their own language in a way that is, to me, reminiscent of trying to translate. I mean, I, again, I took Greek, but trying to translate these ancient languages. Which had a lot of the same parts of speech, but were constructed very differently. So when you try to translate them, it comes out strangely and everybody talks in such a mannered way on this show. Well, everybody doesn't talk to not everybody. Yeah. Some of them are just like cockney blokes.

Andy: 30:01

Well, that's the thing is there is unbelievable filthy, like Right, right, right. Homophobic, fucking

Sean: 30:10

misogynistic. Right. There's lots of, yeah. But even that they, the, you know, there's one, I can't remember if they said it in this episode, And maybe it's because it's John Hannah's character who says it all the time, but he the oath he always uses is Jupiter's cock. Right. He's always, he's always yelling Jupiter's cock. but anyway, that guy, and that's

Andy: 30:28

like a, that's like saying good gracious.

Sean: 30:30

Yeah. Or, or bless you.

Andy: 30:34

Um, but the thing I was sort of, that struck me about he speaks out of turn and yet the truth falls from his mouth just seemed kind of insulting. Like he's like, the truth is just vomiting out of this kid. Yeah.

Sean: 30:47

Well, but that's what I mean. Like it's almost, uh, the truth falls from his mouth is almost poetic to me. Yeah. And it's just an interesting way to look at the language that they are pretty consistent with over the entire four year, four seasons of the series.

Andy: 31:03

Right. Um, but is it so you feel like it's, has an authenticity? The, the odd one, I don't think

Sean: 31:08

it necessarily has an authenticity. I think it just is a stylistic choice that reflects the way I perceived those languages when I was a kid. That they're not, well, that they're not like English. So even though these people are speaking English, they're speaking it in a way that anybody who speaks English would never speak. Does that make

Andy: 31:29

sense? Yes. I guess if it's, if it's, if it feels authentic to that, then it certainly, you can give it credence. I feel like I've, I sort of felt like, is this like a dumb version of basically is like ancient Rome, except as they spoke dirty in the same way that like, Deadwood is like, you know, we're gonna go for it with the cursing and everything. Except, you know, he was, he was going for more almost Shakespearean style. Right, right. Spin on the language. Well,

Sean: 31:58

I think that's a whole other part of it, because there is that element always of the Roman, the decline of the Roman Republic and everybody just being out of control at that point. So how do they portray that? And in this show, like again, skipping ahead to the crazy orgy scene that happens later in the episode. Yeah. You know, that is supposed to show that the Roman Republic is out of control and these people were wiping their asses with sponges on a stick. And yet we see this scene of incredibly beautiful people. Sure. With no clothes on. And it's like, okay, what's the reality here? I don't think that that's what they actually looked like, but we have to show that they're losing their shit. And still, have them be beautiful people that would appear on tv, you know, what do you mean by

Andy: 32:56

losing their shit?

Sean: 32:58

That the republic was falling apart and everybody was just drunk and gorging themselves on stuff and fucking, and you know, nobody was paying attention to actually making sure the country was run properly or Right. You know, which enabled people like Caesar to come in and seize power. Right. Because everybody was just so sensual and narcissistic,

Andy: 33:21

you know? Well, I think that's where I, I am on the side of the show. Mm-hmm. Is that it is, taking the spirit right of the story and the characters and the situation, and then saying, what's the most sensationalistic right? Low, low minded, crowd pleasing version of this,

Sean: 33:42

right? How can we, how can we show beautiful naked bodies all the time? Right. Male and female. Right? Because it's not really happening in this episode, although we did see several of the gladiators come out at the orgy. Yeah. But a lot of the scenes in later episodes are just training scenes at the Gladiator School, and it's just a bunch of dudes in tiny loincloths scene after scene, after scene after scene. I would

Andy: 34:08

love to know the breakdown of the demo of

Sean: 34:11

this show. Who watched the show? I think it was mostly just me.

Andy: 34:17

Well, somebody must have watched it because they did like nine spinoffs. They did four seasons. But I do wonder how many were, you know, were straight men of any of all ages or you know, who, who is watching this show? Right?

Sean: 34:29

Do you want to go to the Magic Mike movie or do you wanna stay home and watch Spar? Sure.

Andy: 34:34

Um, certainly everyone in the show is a dreamboat. There's

Sean: 34:38

no getting around it. So they spend a, well, yes they are. Uh, there's no denying that Andy Whitfield is a beautiful man.

Andy: 34:46

Without question. He kind of had a Sean Bean quality.

Sean: 34:50

Yes, yes. Young Sean Bean. Yeah. Okay, so if you're listening, we're about to give away something that happened in real life that affected the course of the show. if you would prefer not to hear a spoiler, please. And by the way, you should know that Andy and I just had a half hour long argument about whether we should do this or not. just cut ahead to

Kevin: 35:12

Thirty-Seven minutes and twenty seconds

Andy: 35:14

if you would prefer to not hear anything about the background of the real life situation. Not to mention, as Sean pointed out, the historical reality, that might give away things in the future of this series. Right.

Sean: 35:27

We'll see on the other side. And unfortunately, in real life, like Sean Bean did in every show ever, Andy Whitfield died after season one. That's spoiler. Um, yeah, it was very sad. he had some form of cancer and they thought it was in remission, and then it wasn't. And so I don't, I haven't even looked this up. I just think that I know most of this, but. what ended up happening was they made the second season the prequel to the first season. Right. So the second season happens before the first season and ends, I think five years before the first season starts. Mm-hmm. But it's a lot of the same characters. You have something, Kevin?

Kevin: 36:09

Yeah. So from Wikipedia at least it looks like I. He was diagnosed at the end of season one. Mm-hmm. They pushed back season two because he was gonna get treatment. Mm-hmm. But they still wanted to move forward with something and so they developed a prequel in which Okay. He would provide some voiceover mm-hmm. But wouldn't appear. and then later on that same year, he, said he couldn't even come back for the voiceover. and then it sounds like it just got worse rapidly. And then, before he died, it says they sort of had the conversation and it gave the blessing for them to, said it was okay to keep going. Yeah. yeah. But it seems like season two was created under the idea back. They thought he would be involved. Yeah.

Andy: 36:47

I mean, I guess it's such a sort of big part of it, but it's such a huge spoiler. But it is a spoiler that's built on real life where he actually passed away. Mm-hmm. So I don't know if I'm trying to think if the show structurally changes, is that a spoiler? But

Sean: 37:01

I, but I also feel like we already know where the series is gonna go. It's like when they did Rome and we knew at the end of season one Caesar was gonna die. Mm-hmm. Spoiler, in Spartacus, we know that they got caught and that he was executed. Mm-hmm. So everything else is just the particulars of how we get to that, which is the fun of the show.

Andy: 37:20

But even that, like, I didn't know he was caught and executed at the end of the series.

Sean: 37:23

Oh, I see. So you, you, you really have paid no attention to anything ever. Well, he was, because that's in the movie too. Like,

Andy: 37:30

that's, well, I know he was caught and executed in his story, but we don't know when that happened. in this series. Uh, but yeah, I agree that structurally talking about it is interesting.

Sean: 37:41

You think it's bad to say, like they took a break from the forward motion of the series and went back to before season one and did that. Then they came back in season three and picked up where season one left off and then just went straight forward from there. I'm

Andy: 37:57

not sure,

Sean: 37:58

I just think it's really interesting that they did that right and that the season two, which they were not planning to do, is fucking great. You know? They weren't planning to do it at all. No, because it was done so that they didn't have to use him. Like the story of Spartacus is he escapes from the Luda, he takes the slaves with him, they go off into the mountains, they start fighting with the Romans. Eventually they get caught Spartacus and everybody else is executed. But they were like, oh, we can't use Andy for this season, so let's, I don't know, let's take John Hannah's character and see how he got to where he was in season one. And that's hard to do, you know? It's like, better call Saul. It's hard to pull off the thing that happened before the interesting thing you've already done. Uh, okay, where were we? so a lot of what goes on in the first two thirds of the show is establishing the relationship between Spartacus and his wife. Right? Cuz that's so important to his mindset when he is captured later on in the show, right. And becomes a gladiator, his whole life becomes, how can I get back to her right? And how can I see her again? Right. So we have, the moment where he's leaving and she doesn't want him to go. And then she tells him about the dream she had where she saw him kneeling before a red serpent. Right. And we know this episode is called The Red Serpent, so that seems significant. There's,

Andy: 39:26

there's certainly not leaving anything to chance. One thing that was interesting is that when they say goodbye and it's really nice, they, they do a good job of building up their relationship within the tone of this show Uhhuh and having it seem like these two people, these two Absolutely. Oh, I was thinking

Sean: 39:40

the same

Andy: 39:40

thing. It feels absolutely beautiful people Yeah. Seem to really love each

Sean: 39:44

other. It, it, it feels like a Harlequin romance or something. And then at the end, this beautiful woman Yeah. Who we're hoping to get as a guest on the show says, I. Kill them all. Right.

Andy: 39:58

Which is fantastic. Yes. But then the other thing I was gonna say is when they, later, when he is about to go off, I don't know if I'm skipping ahead where you are, but when he, when he is gonna go off to war, and you're allowed to do that, by the way. Well, I don't wanna break. Yeah. I don't wanna talk at a turn. Mm-hmm. Unless, and let the truth fall from my mouth. Um, what are you talking about? But, uh, when they have sex, I was kinda like, all right, buckle up. I know what this show is gonna do with this. And it was a little bit of a misdirection. Mm-hmm. Because it was kinda like Yeah. It's two beautiful naked bodies rioting against each other. It's so understated in comparison to what I expected. But I was kind of like, huh, I guess maybe this show is gonna be a little bit more elegant than I, it's so funny to contrast with the later see to what we see later, and they're just like, oh no. They wanna, they wanna establish that this is a more of a relatively adult

Sean: 40:53

connection. That's the whole, whole thing is that it's about how they're different from the Romans. Right. Like the, the whole thing is about him saying, you know, we have to honor our word to the Romans. We have to do what we told them we would do. Yeah. And the Romans are so depraved and decadent and don't care about any of that stuff. The, the two of

Andy: 41:11

them are Harlequin Romance, the others are Screw Magazine. Not even, not even Penthouse.

Sean: 41:17

Fuck you. Do you remember that Al Goldstein show on Manhattan Cable?

Andy: 41:21

Sure.

Sean: 41:22

What was the name of it? It was like something, something after

Andy: 41:24

dark. Yeah. I don't remember.

Sean: 41:25

I definitely watched it quite a bit. Well

41:27

see,

Andy: 41:27

here's my thing and maybe, maybe I'm a prude. Mm-hmm. It was so awful.

Sean: 41:32

It was horrible. But I just found him wasn't such a crazy character. Even as a teenage

Andy: 41:37

boy, I was like, this is gross. I feel like I'm hanging out with gross people. I don't wanna watch this.

Sean: 41:43

Midnight blue. Yes. And I just thought it was so funny that this weird old man, yeah. Every week would just have a thing where he would say, fuck you to somebody. Yeah. It was, anyway, it was a lot of wasted time. But you're right. That's a good contrast where one of them is very sweet and they love each other. They love each other so much. They say things that are clearly, to indicate that, what does he say? He says, Oh, she says when he goes back to rescue her. So these guys, the thracians get betrayed by the Romans Clearly it's, you know, the thracians are the Roman auxiliary. As one of the guys says like, welcome to the Roman Auxiliary. Mm-hmm. So they're disposable. They're just, You know, cannon fodder basically, which it was very difficult at that time to be cannon fodder since gunpowder had yet to be invented. So you really felt no's sense of

Andy: 42:35

purpose that's even more useless Yeah.

Sean: 42:36

Than no

Andy: 42:37

sense of purpose at all. Cannon fodder. Um, now they had the way they present it, which obviously is instrumental in the story. Mm-hmm. And, you know, sort of sets it up that he gave his word and all this stuff. Would the Ians have even had a choice, do you know? Or was this, I don't

Sean: 42:53

know. I don't, I I would assume so, because otherwise they're just slaves and they have to go out and be controlled by people.

Andy: 43:01

Didn't the Romans con script people against their will? I mean, they

Sean: 43:04

must have. Yeah. I'm not sure how that worked. Yeah, I do think they made deals with people, you know, but whatever

Andy: 43:10

the case, they definitely go out of their way. To establish even to the point of the infighting amongst the Ians that, Spartacus is, I gave my word, even if it's to the Romans and the Romans aren't dealing with them like straight shooters. It's like I gave my word to, to constantly draw the distinction between the Romans and Spartacus. And even

Sean: 43:30

in the moment where or it's before the Romans come, but they find out they're heading east instead of west, which is where the bad guys are heading west to where the Thracian women are, and they know what's gonna happen if they catch the Thracian women. Mm-hmm. the Romans are heading east to fight against myth rite's, army, the Greeks. because Blaber, Hey, this

Andy: 43:51

guy's gonna know about, Sean's gonna have a lot to say

Sean: 43:54

because Blaber, I mean, this is where it starts to get into the political stuff. He wants to move up in the world. That's what the whole show is really about, is you have a certain station in society and how do you become equal to the people above you? And Blaber wants to be important. He wants to be a senator, not just a Legist. Uh, just like Hamilton. Yeah, exactly. This was the original. There is an episode called The Room where it happened on Spartacus.

Andy: 44:21

Sure, sure.

Sean: 44:22

but when they find that out and the Romans show up, and Spartacus is saying, we need to go the other way. We need to defend our homes. And Blaber loses his shit and says something about move to formation or whatever. He's screaming at them in that moment. Yeah.

Andy: 44:39

And see in the graphic novel is just a period

Sean: 44:42

Spartacus grabs the bridle of the horse Yeah. To keep it from getting scared. Right. And the bridal, so none of this is his fault. The bridal breaks.

Andy: 44:55

Well, that's another thing that sort of seems like gilding the Lilly Uhhuh that he's trying to grab it to to steady him. To him. Him. Yeah. And it seems like he was fucking with him. Right. And it's like, do you need that? He was already acting like a dick. You gave your

Sean: 45:06

word. Right. You need to, and they, but they really wanna establish, he's a good, good guy. They really do. And uh, and then they of course kill all the Romans except gla, who they leave lying in the mud and say they think he's dead. So they leave him there. and there's also. Again, I just love the moment where you see Sparta has switch from like, I'm gonna defend these guys, and he grabs the spear and kills the guy who's riding away on the horse. And is

Andy: 45:35

he hesitating in that moment, in your opinion? Because he is like, I know if I throw this then I am. That's the final straw. Straw. It's all in. Yeah, because up until then he hasn't done anything.

Sean: 45:45

He has truly right. He's not the wrong, like things went badly, but he is not in the

Andy: 45:49

wrong but also fantastic kill when you throw the spirit at the guy, uh, and it hits his neck or it hits his head, it hits his neck. His neck. I think it his neck. Yeah. Yeah. Sort of hard to tell but it definitely neck is, is more bloody and awful.

Sean: 46:01

Um, and then he goes back and just when we see that soura is about to be attacked by a bunch of bad guys or I believe, yeah,

Andy: 46:13

I was thinking the same thing. So that they dressed them in skull costumes and everything. Yeah. It's interesting is, oh wait a minute, this post date, I'm trying to figure out whether this Postdates Game of Thrones or not

Kevin: 46:24

predates it. Uh, game of Thrones came out in the spring of 2011,

Andy: 46:26

right? Because this is very similar to uh, Lord of Bones. I mean so many characters in Game of Thrones. But yeah, that's a perfect example. Not to mention ORs. And that really ties into a larger thing, which is this is, based, on historical fact, however, loosely or, or authentically, it is clearly a sword and sword and sorcery fantasy show. Mm-hmm. With no sorcery. It's clearly like, and these guys in their, in their monster costumes are such a

Sean: 46:56

perfect, and I also think it's interesting. I know, we know that they're wearing like skull animal skulls or whatever on their faces. Yeah. But I feel like you never quite get a clear view of what they look like. They're just weird and menacing

Andy: 47:12

looking. Sure. Which is the intention, just uhhuh killing meat, killing evil meat. Right.

Sean: 47:17

And so just as Surah is about to be in big trouble with these guys, We hear the sound of whistling through the air and she ducks just in time for Spartacus sword to flip into the chest of the guy who was about to attack her. So I got a

Andy: 47:34

lot of things to say. Mm-hmm. First it is, it is an awesome recurring move that he, that he just throws, throws his sword to the point where later in the scene When does the, when does the, the guy say throw your sword? Oh, I don't remember. I believe that it might berena that says it to him some, like, that's like, it's so well known that that's his move that he says it.

Sean: 47:54

Do you think there were some people who called him Drees? The menace

Andy: 47:59

he did is his attitude. He fucking cussing up a storm. That guy, he cunts, cleaned it up. Travis, a little light. but, uh, That's, that's the first thing. The second thing is, yeah, he throws it at the guy. Guy.

Sean: 48:13

It could, it could have killed her easily

Andy: 48:15

depicting Yeah. So much. Mm-hmm. On that, the, his wife is like, oh, his wife, my wife, my wife knows me. Yeah. If I throw this sword, she'll know when to duck.

Sean: 48:23

Well, he got the whistling sword,

Andy: 48:25

you know. Sure. So, or maybe he made the whistling sound to let her know. uh, that was, that was the second thing. and the third thing is for most of this scene, literally, I would say, it had to transition into the next scene for me to go, all right. I guess I was wrong. I was certain this was a dream sequence. Because the last thing is him sort of leaving, you don't know how far away he is. The, uh, the barbarians attack and the CG is so heavy in this scene, right. Of feeling unreal. But I was like, this must be a dream sequence. Right, right.

Sean: 49:01

She looks up and we can't see what she's looking at, and then they come around and show and we don't see what it is. And then the monsters come out of the fog, basically. Yes.

Andy: 49:11

so it was, it was only after they get outta the scene and I'm like, Nope, guess it was real.

Sean: 49:16

This really happened. And then they run back to see what's going on with their village. And of course their village has been burned to the ground. It's gone. Right. It was a very cone in the barbarian moment of like, I have no home anymore. And

Andy: 49:27

do you think he, he seems very ef obviously affected in the scene afterwards when they're sort of, you know, figuring out where they're going and, um, south it'll be south in their lives. do you think it's, I created this problem or do you think it's just sadness that everybody's dead?

Sean: 49:45

uh, I never thought about it as I created this problem because I don't think he would think about it that way. Like, I think that. He was trying.

Andy: 49:53

Always denies responsibility. You real problem with that. He knows

Sean: 49:57

he is honorable. He knows he was doing the right thing. He was trying to grab the horse by the bridal. is it the bridal? I don't know. I think it's called the strap. The it's get the Horse by the Strap. but I do think there's an element because he says the thing about like everyone we know is gone or something like that. Yeah. And then he says, I have people, here's the other

Andy: 50:16

interesting thing in South. I would love to ask your friend if we get her on Uhhuh earlier in the show, there's a tear that I'm almost certain is cg.

Sean: 50:26

Oh, could be, I think it in this scene as, as

Andy: 50:29

well, and oh, see in this scene, I thought, oh, this one seems real. Oh, yeah, we'll

Sean: 50:33

find out. But maybe I'm wrong.

Andy: 50:34

We'll find out. Maybe they have one thing where when it come, comes out of her eye, it's CG uhhuh, and then they're like, well, we're gonna do a CG thing later. So then when they cut back to her, it's, there's a drip down or tray. Right. That seems real.

Sean: 50:44

Um, but again, we're really setting up how important this relationship is. Yeah. So just looking at what they said in this scene. Yeah. I think he is in some way feeling a sense of responsibility for what has happened to the town. But I think it's more about, it's not a town, the Hamlet, let's say the Hamlet, it's more about the suburb, right. The bedroom community. I didn't get back here in time to save everybody in town. Right. I wish I was a thousand men. I wish I was a thousand men. Exactly. And then,

Andy: 51:14

and by the way, if you're gonna just choose a number, a million. Yeah.

Sean: 51:19

Best better odds. I wish I was a billion men. That's billions with a B. she says, you did what you could. You came back for me knowing it could mean your life. And he says There is no life without you. Yeah. I mean, that's how I feel about you Shaun. A beautiful Thank you. A beautiful sentiment. Yeah. You know, and we all know what that's like to feel that way about someone, but not to be a gladiator. So then they go to sleep, which you should never do when the Romans are hunting you not to ruin

Andy: 51:52

this beautiful moment. Yeah. is it Drees or is it one of the ORs that says, I'll fuck your women. I'll fuck them all. I don't know

Sean: 52:00

if it was Drees, but it was definitely one of the thracians, one of the Thracians says in the middle of

Andy: 52:04

the battle. Yes. Yeah. And so what part of ancient sort of, you know, uh, Roman speech, Latin speech mm-hmm. Do you think they're kind of, sort of putting a

Sean: 52:14

twist on? I, I will tell you that that was one of the things that came up quite a bit when we were in high school was like, yeah, this is this ancient language, but it was just like ours. They said dirty things all the time. Oh, there you go. So, and, and you can imagine that in high school, that's what the teachers had to say to get people to pay attention. Yeah. You know? so I don't remember what the Greek, swears were, but they definitely existed, you know? But

Andy: 52:38

the other thing that's so fascinating is whenever they're talking, and I'm curious if you felt the same thing. And it may be because a lot of it was CG and it was on set and they were doing all these, uh, there there's so much that's created that they were like, eh, fuck it. We'll create the whole thing. Mm-hmm. There's a lot of noise in the warfare. The voices and the performances almost sound like they're dubbed like an an Italian

Sean: 53:00

gladiator for they're, the one in particular that stuck out to me was the guy who said, they blow their horns, A Roman dog barks and the gods shit on me. Welcome to the Roman auxiliary. Like, that guy felt like he was not actually saying those things, and I guess

Andy: 53:15

he might have just been at the performance, might not have been there. I, I, I did

Sean: 53:18

think a lot of the performances were like, Created and post yeah, maybe that was why, but I was like, this is not a real person saying anything. You can easily

Andy: 53:27

see Maybe they cast a lot of these people based on their look and their Well, and they were physical, physical, you know,

Sean: 53:32

ability. And they were shooting in New Zealand, so they were like, oh, okay. Using lots of people who were just locals who, which is why everybody talks with a Kiwi accent. British accent. Yeah. so then they're sleeping and then the Romans show up and Glbb, it's, it just again, is a funny shot to me of him like ride, they're always riding over hills because that way you don't have to show what's beyond the hill. Right. So you can just put it on a sound stage and have a horse just appear outta nowhere. Yeah. And they capture Spartacus and they take his wife away. Yes. Which

Andy: 54:07

is the most biblical of shots that they have. And, uh, the most, like z igner, it's a big tie-in Uhhuh, when they're dragging her

Sean: 54:16

off. Right. I think it was that moment where they did that crazy transition of like all these flashes of various things happening of how he was gonna end up Yeah. Wasn't it in that moment? I believe you. Right. And he's on the, and then he's on the ship and Regains consciousness.

Andy: 54:31

And I wonder how much of that was created in post. I wonder if there was more of a scene. There was stuff that they were just, because it really is impressively brisk. It really cuts from thing to thing. They cover so much territory. Right. and that's like a perfect moment of Yeah. His life is falling apart. We'll do an effect, we'll do a montage. Right. And, and

Sean: 54:50

it's a, it's a montage of a bunch of different scenes that takes. Five seconds. Less than five seconds. Probably less. Yeah.

Andy: 54:57

Four. Uh, I mean it could have been four. It could have been three, but that's probably stretching it. So I'd probably say about three. It was longer than two.

Sean: 55:04

No doubt. Yeah. anyway then, so we have, we have these important characters from the first two thirds of the show. We have gl the Roman bad guy. Yeah. We have his wife Elithia, who we haven't even talked about. No. Who's that exotic kind of woman who shows up to your apartment wearing a fur coat and nothing else. And then, and then we have Soura and then we have Spartacus. And those are the people we, we meet in that part of the show.

Andy: 55:31

they really set up effective villains cuz Lithia is like awful. It's so, it's so great. She's so manipulative. Yeah. She's all about, sort of pushing labor into his, you know, the issues he already has, the ego and everything. Right. It's just really,

Sean: 55:47

she keeps bringing up how her father is gonna be disappointed if he doesn't get involved with the fight with ROEs. Right. And he knows that the father is his ticket to the Senate, so he needs to do what the father wants him to do, and she's just playing him the whole time. So anyway, we know all them. And then kind of the next section to me is the stuff at the villa, at Albinia Villa. Yeah. and that's where we see her talking to, Glor again and saying There's whispers in the Senate about how, so it turns out Glor fucked up and lost half his men. Yeah. In trying to chase after Ro and has blamed all of it on Spartacus, right? That it was the fault of the Thracian who, you know, did this. and he's gonna, quiet the whispers about his cowardice and inability by giving the people blood. And

Andy: 56:37

this seemed to me to be, obviously, I don't care, I wanna say the gladiator stuff, but this seemed to me to be a bit of a motivational stretch. Or do you feel like, in what sense? That he would've been able to cover up a mistake of that size by bringing back some ations to execute?

Sean: 56:53

Well, I think that I hate to say it. Mm-hmm. It's fucking Trumpian. Mm-hmm. Before Trump. It's changing the conversation. It's distracting people from what really happened, which in

Andy: 57:09

fairness, I guess is what the Gladiatorial games were. Exactly.

Sean: 57:12

Anyway. Yes. Yeah. and so it's him going, if I just have these Tations killed, that's what everybody will be talking about. Right. Instead of my fuckups. Right. so that's his plan. Albinus comes in, he's very upset. Elithia talks to her father, and then we have the craziest scene in the episode that is just about. Pure decadence. Right.

Andy: 57:35

which again, you can justify as like we're showing how, depraved and broken, you know, the Roman civilization

Sean: 57:43

is at this point, right. No, I think that's exactly what it is,

Andy: 57:46

but it is also playing to the

Sean: 57:48

adolescent boy. Hey, hey, hey,

Andy: 57:50

we're stars. Can you get some asses in the seat?

Sean: 57:54

I mean, there's one shot where a woman is just showing off her clearly artificial breasts for like, Hey Sean, you know, you don't know At least. More than two seconds, you know?

Andy: 58:05

but

Sean: 58:05

I mean, of course, yeah, you're right. I don't know that they're artificial. They just seemed that way to me. I don't know.

Andy: 58:09

the most amazing money shot as I, I mentioned at the top of the show was it was not just a little person running around with a mask and a, it seems like a unicorn equivalent dildo of a dildo. Mm-hmm. Uh, life like dildo, coming outta the center of his head. But what also confuses me even more is I think he has mouse ears on, unless those are supposed to be elephant tears. And it's some weird, I,

Sean: 58:35

I did not even notice cuz I was too busy studying the dildo and he's

Andy: 58:40

so prominently displayed several times. Like, they're like, we got, this is fantastic. Mm-hmm. We cannot leave a a, a slimmer of a chance, a glimmer a minute. We cannot leave. We can at least a

Sean: 58:55

single iota of a chance That's

Andy: 58:57

right. That they will miss this. Yes. Um, zoom in on the

Sean: 59:01

dildo.

Andy: 59:02

It's so funny. Is dancing around. And I also love that at the beginning of the show with, during their first sex scene, I was like, Hey, this show's really gonna, it's gonna have a light touch. It's just, and then it was just

Sean: 59:14

crazy press fuck you.

Andy: 59:17

Welcome to midnight, blue.

Sean: 59:20

yeah. And, and here's the other thing, and they really make a big point out of this too, and I actually felt badly for the, for the actresses who had to do this because there were four actresses who had to lie in pools of water the entire time. Oh, that's such a good point. And that is because the city of Capua during this episode is going through a horrible drought. Right. And Albinus makes a point of saying, I brought water from Rome, and he has used it to fill up the pools in his house so that naked women can roll around in them with rose

Andy: 59:59

petals. It's fantastic. And it's funny that it, even in that scene, beyond the actresses having to endure it. Well, I

Sean: 1:00:06

just think of it from, which is because I'm a, I'm a journeyman actor myself, and I just know that it can be very uncomfortable. And you've

Andy: 1:00:12

done at least three scenes having to, in the nude, in a pool, I was in

Sean: 1:00:16

scenes, right Andy? I was nude from the waist down. Okay. Sorry. I didn't mean to, I refuse to

Andy: 1:00:22

go topless Sean. I judge no one for their, you know, their career choices to whatever they have to do is what you ever have to do.

Sean: 1:00:27

So these poor actresses had to roll around in this very valuable water, brought all the way from Rome to Capua during a time of, of drought to show that these are the wealthy people who don't care about the commoners.

Andy: 1:00:44

And the, the other thing that I was gonna say was that the thing you're saying does, did hit me when I was, so it's an, it's effective, right? That he's talking about the waste of water and how they're, and meanwhile there's people just running around, around and I remember thinking like, But what about that water? They're gonna need that water. Right? Why are they just letting people be in it? They don't care if they're,

Sean: 1:01:02

they're beautiful naked people. Not to bring this up again, but those women wipe their butts with a stick, with a sponge on it, with Shawn and my face on it. So in that water, after they roll around in it, it's not gonna be, it doesn't mean they won't drink it, but it's not gonna be good for drinking. It's really not Giardia. Well, I don't know if they had Giardia back then. but anyway, we meet some really great characters in this scene who are hugely important to the show. What I like about that in terms of a pilot is obviously this is Spartacus show. Mm-hmm. And we spent so much time with him building him up, finding out about him, what his, Morals are what his values are, what his, uh, uh, wants and needs are. And then at this point in the show, it's like, okay, now let's get to the other people and see if we can introduce them as quickly as possible, but in a way that gives us some of what's gonna be going on later on in the show.

Andy: 1:02:04

Which is really, you can say one of the most unique things about this show and where stars kind of really planted their flag in an interesting way, is I think that there's, you know, once in a generation, some person who's like, I'm gonna do a pawn, but I'm gonna do it classy and I'm gonna do it with real electives and I'm gonna do it, whatever. And, uh, And in some ways, this isn't the porn version, but this is the, you know, this cheesecake beefcake, there's like, yeah. It's completely sensationalistic. It's completely bloody and gory. They spend a tremendous amount of time setting up the characters and giving the backgrounds and setting the, the emotional arcs of each of the characters in a way that is kind of unheralded for this level of satisfying b-movie television show.

Sean: 1:02:50

Right. And, and that never goes away. I mean, there's always orgies going on and people fucking, and people taking baths together. The sex element of the show is there all the way through. Yeah. But what happens in this scene is they start to set the wheels in motion of all the entanglements and the political stuff that goes on over the course of the whole series. Yeah. Um, so we meet, well first we meet Albinus because he's important, although he's not really that present throughout. The episode, but we meet Bates and Lucrecia, which is John Hannah and Lucy Lawless. Yeah. And they're sort of the other stars of the show besides Spartacus Uhhuh. And there's such a great exchange between ADEs and Lucrecia. And SEIUs, who is the other guy who trains gladiators, They call each other old friends, but ADEs is shitting on the gladiators that came from the other guy because he, they're only using two of his gladiators and they're using six of the other guys's gladiators. Right. And he wants to be more important to the games. And then SIUs comes over and says, your gladiators will be a great intermission between the actual good fights between my gladiators. Like they're, they're just being so wonderfully passive, aggressively mean to each other. Are they the

Andy: 1:04:19

equivalent of people in the entertainment industry? Yes. So just

Sean: 1:04:23

like, and then Lon is basically what they are. Solon is basically hitting on Lucretia the entire time right in front of ADEs. And right

Andy: 1:04:32

now I have to, uh, you don't have to go into a spoiler, but, uh mm-hmm. I have to assume loosely lawless because when I realized it was her, I was like, Oh, I assume this has to be a big setup for this character in a more major way. And I don't know whether I should ask you this question so you can, you can deem it yourself. Okay. I may ask a spoiler question. Mm-hmm. The biggest thing I wondered is because she just seems to be a lady of the Roman, Republic. Republic, sorry. The Lady of

Sean: 1:05:00

the Roman Republic, I think, I don't know what the fuck I'm talking about, by the way. But in my head, the empire really started after Julius Caesar. Um,

Andy: 1:05:09

I guess my main question is, do they find occasion to let Lucy Lawless cut loose and use her physical, prowess in these,

Sean: 1:05:16

in this? Not, not to my recollection, for the most part. Part. Interesting. She's just a beautiful making Zena Noble woman.

Andy: 1:05:23

Yeah. And you're saying, no, let's play her straight. It's sort of interesting. Yeah. In a gladiator

Sean: 1:05:27

show, no less. Yeah. No, she does not in my head. I don't remember her. Yeah. Doing a lot of fighting. Yeah. but she's hugely important to the show. I mean, she's, again, like I said, one of the main characters. anyway, so we also, so we meet, we meet them, we meet, and Lucretia Bardis is a, I don't know what they call it, but he runs a Ludi, which is a gladiator school. Okay. And she is his wife, SIUs also runs a Ludi. Mm-hmm. And they are jockeying for social position in Capua. Mm-hmm.

Andy: 1:06:03

And this immediately interests me, is like my perception of gladiators is that they mostly came from slaves. And criminals in that era. And maybe they are

Sean: 1:06:11

slaves. They are slaves. They are slaves. Yeah. They're, I mean, The

Andy: 1:06:14

V or the gladiators

Sean: 1:06:16

too. The gladiators too. They're all slaves. The gladiators are slaves. Although, but I guess they have to be taught, this is a, well, when they fight to the death, do they have

Andy: 1:06:23

commercials or their billboards and then people are like, sign up. It's like,

Sean: 1:06:27

but I, I do do think that was a thing that, that gladi, do you know how long the era of gladiators lasted in that? Time.

Andy: 1:06:34

Yes, but I'm gonna, I'm gonna let you talk about it because you, uh, you like to show off. It

Sean: 1:06:38

was 900 years. Holy crap. I had no idea. 900 years they were using gladiators to distract people from what was really

Andy: 1:06:47

going on. I mean, that's an impressive, that show is the longest running show of all time. You gotta say it's

Sean: 1:06:53

really impressive. Think about when we've are gonna have had the Super Bowl for 900 years. Sean, can you

Andy: 1:07:00

imagine the

Sean: 1:07:01

residuals on that? Well, a lot of it was AI towards the end, so, and Zaslav was taking a huge chunk for his own bonuses. and I, what I was gonna say, and I don't think this is really a spoiler, but if it is cut ahead to 4,604, oh, you

Andy: 1:07:16

don't have to look, I'm on, I'm on the side of no

Sean: 1:07:19

spoiler. You could decide you wanted to be a gladiator. You could and enslave yourself basically. Because if you fought well, you could earn money. So there's a character later in the show who is just a regular dude who's like, I'm in debt. I want to help out my wife, so I'm gonna become a gladiator.

Andy: 1:07:41

But he's still enslaved for life.

Sean: 1:07:43

Yes. he has to do what they say and he has to fight to her Rackers. or, I'm trying to remember. he might have had the possibility of buying his freedom at some point. Uhhuh, um, because the gladiators are all for sale. He, well, what, what kind of deal are you gonna give me? Uh, yeah. He got in a big argument with himself. I don't think I'm worth that much. I think I am. Who are you talking to?

Andy: 1:08:05

He is negotiating with a guy. Oh, I see. Uh,

Sean: 1:08:09

we meet also Barca. the beast of Carthage. Mm-hmm. And Crysis, what do they call'em? The god of the, the God of blood and sand, the undefeated gall. And those are two of the gladiators who are really main characters going forward.

Andy: 1:08:27

it's very interesting cuz what you're talking about is these characters we do not need to meet in the pilot. Any of them. Right. We just see them, the ones that run the schools, those feel like, okay, you're building

Sean: 1:08:37

a new character. Cause Body Out by Spartacus at the

Andy: 1:08:39

end of the end episode, it's almost like two pilots. It's like two half hour pilots back to

Sean: 1:08:43

back. Right. it's like Cliff in the pilot of Cheers, he has like two lines. Yeah. And in this episode, I think. Barca and Crysis don't even speak. They just stand there and look beautiful. Right. You know,

Andy: 1:08:55

but it's like, why, why are they in there? Right. It's very interesting and it's really just like, no, you're gonna fill out the world. There are gonna be a lot of different

Sean: 1:09:02

guys. And I think maybe also because it means that by the time we come back to episode two it makes sense that Spartacus already knows them That's true.

Andy: 1:09:13

But you could just start episode two and you know, by implication.

Sean: 1:09:17

Although as I'm saying that, that's not even true because they're all separate in that like he doesn't come in until after they have been on display. Right. Right. He comes in with the sixth ations at the end. Right. Um, so I'm totally lying and bullshitting. I apologize.

Andy: 1:09:31

Classic conroy. Yeah.

Sean: 1:09:33

so we meet all of them. We find out, BA Addiss is kind of a, Like this is a great demonstration of Ba Otis's character mm-hmm. Going forward. And why I think John Hanna is so funny. Mm-hmm. He says, SIUs secures half a dozen of his ill trained Simeon. That man has his fingers in all the proper assholes. He wiggles them and everyone shit's gold. Like he's always saying stuff like that, you know? Right. because he's so conscious of his social position and wants more. Right. Then we get to the last part of the show, which is the battle in the arena, and that's when we come in on Drees the Menace fighting against, Mr. Wilson as always. Um, well, what I think is interesting is actually those characters do all have names. All the gladiators at the end who are in the arena actually have character names instead of just being like, gladiator number one, gladiator number

Andy: 1:10:34

two, you can't sell the action figures otherwise.

Sean: 1:10:36

but the, uh, arcadias Yeah. Is the gladiator with the red serpent on his shield. So once Drees is killed,

Andy: 1:10:48

by the way. Yeah. Just to address that for a second, really this is a perfect example of, the ability with structure. Stephen tonight shows in this episode. Mm-hmm. Because you certainly feel him, setting up dryness earlier but he makes such a strong choice of maybe being this filthy mouth kind of Right, gross,

Sean: 1:11:07

somewhat despicable. And somebody, and somebody starts out being against Sparta and antagonist to him and then, and then maybe become friends. And in

Andy: 1:11:14

a, it's such a, a fast like brisk fashion that works. Like you don't, you're not like, right. Oh, that's not believable. It's like everyone in the show seems insane and amped up to 10, it totally seems reasonable. Mm-hmm. And then it sets up perfect. Even though we've already sort of seen him, it sets up perfectly his death at the end. So you're like, oh no, Dre is, he was a great character. Yeah. Oh no. It's like, that's crazy.

Sean: 1:11:35

That's the guy stole the wine from Glover's tent.

Andy: 1:11:38

He spent like three minutes on that guy and I'm sad that he's gone. Yeah. Here's another thing I want to say. Yeah. It's a quick moment. But, the moment in when Spartacus is in the cell mm-hmm. Waiting to be brought on and here's, I dunno if he seized Renna be killed, he, he ultimately

Sean: 1:11:54

sees him, I think,

Andy: 1:11:55

he is sort of

Sean: 1:11:55

looks he's being marched up Oh. Before he gets outta the cell.

Andy: 1:11:58

Before he gets outta the cell and he looks back and you see the pile of corpses Yeah. That they're just hurling in next to him. Yeah. It's so effectively bleak and upsetting and just like, oh man. Can you imagine, and it kind of made me think of another moment in the show, which really illustrates how well this show is going to do these moments mm-hmm. Of like, how horrible it was in this time is when Spartacus wakes up and they're all in the ship and their arms are strapped above their heads in the bowels of this ship, in the middle of a storm and how badly they're being treated.

Sean: 1:12:32

And he starts to struggle and I forget if it's Dr or the other guy says, Just be careful. You've been out for a couple of days. Right. So he's been in that position for

Andy: 1:12:44

days, doesn't stop him from killing how many? Four.

Sean: 1:12:48

Four. Right. sore is killed and then it Spartacus has turn in the arena to fight against the guy whore just fought against. Right? And then we go back to the box seats where Spike Lee sits during the gladiator battles. Right.

Andy: 1:13:01

And Antagonizes, Reggie Miller Gladiator.

Sean: 1:13:05

And the guy, Glader says, I saved a surprise or something. All my

Andy: 1:13:09

sports sports references is going to be outdated. Fyi.

Sean: 1:13:13

Well, that was, that was a memorable, I mean that's like saying, that's like saying, oh, sure Babe Ruth called his shot. But you know, who gives a shit? Like, that's an iconic moment. I see. You know, the battle between Spike and Reggie is it's like documentaries about that, you know? I know. But we cut back to GL and g grabber says, I saved a surprise, and the door's open and we don't know what's coming out. And I feel in that moment, I'm thinking of the movie Gladiator. I'm thinking of Russ Crow in the middle of the arena there. And I'm like, is it gonna be an a tiger? Is it gonna be an elephant? What's gonna bear? Like all of these were animals that they had destroy people in those battles. And of course, it's three other gladiators come out, so now it's one on four. Yeah.

Andy: 1:13:56

and are you disappointed that there's not a bear in a tiger?

Sean: 1:13:58

I mean, I knew there wasn't, but I just feel like they're setting up like such Right. Anticipation of like, oh, oh, right. You know, and it's three gladiators and I, again, I wish I had looked this up, but each of them is a different style of gladiator uhhuh. Like one of them is the guy who uses the ax. One of them is the guy who uses the spear, and one of them is the guy who uses the net and the Trident. Right. and we already have the guy. In the arena. Who's using I think it was the Gladius. I mean, that's where they got the name from, was the particular sword that everybody used. Uhhuh. but they make a specific point of having, it's like we got a wide receiver, a linebacker, a defensive end, and a quarterback.

Andy: 1:14:39

I just don't think it was fair to the guy with the sponge and the stick that they

Sean: 1:14:42

in there. I kill'em, but it's very slow. Bacterial infections take a while. This could take a few days. Help you guys pack

Andy: 1:14:53

the sandwich. I gotcha. Oh man. As long as you don't

Sean: 1:14:56

wash just a guy running

Andy: 1:14:58

around the arena, you are in serious

Sean: 1:15:01

trouble. It's a tiny cut. What's the big

Andy: 1:15:03

deal? We don't have antibiotics. You're in

Sean: 1:15:05

serious trouble. It's been three days. I'm very woozy. but of course, Spartacus begins to lose and there's that. Great, again, this goes back to the cartoonish gore element we were talking about before, where he gets cracked in the back of the head with the handle of the, the ax.

Andy: 1:15:24

Yeah. So hilarious is every shot that Spartacus takes throughout the course of this pilot, Uhhuh is a, is a

Sean: 1:15:30

death blow. Right. Right. And and there's so much blood that comes out of the back of his head. Yeah. Although, to be fair, part of that is because head wounds just bleed. Right. It doesn't mean it was like a fatal thing. It's like if you get hit in the head, if you cut your head it bleeds a lot. Sure. You know? Sure, sure. But he ultimately ends up killing all of them and the crowd. And that's the problem too, is the crowd gets angry that it's four on one and they start to take Spartacus side. Right. And they start chanting live, live, live. And that's when a lot of the, the weird machinations start to happen in the spike lease seats Blaber is disappointed because he wants this guy to be killed. Mm-hmm. He wants this therian to be killed because he cost him half his army. Mm-hmm. The Senator Albinus is like, well, the crowd likes him. Right. We gotta do what the crowd wants. Maybe we should let him live. Ada sees an opportunity to both get another gladiator for himself to help out GL and to shit on SIUs who really has nothing to say in this moment. Right. cuz he shits on the four guys who were killed, who are all lenius as men and says, I'll buy'em from you. Right. Which helps everybody out and puts him in a better position and ends up buying Spartacus and we kind of end there, I guess. Right? Yeah, I believe so. but I, I just love that moment because there's so many things going on in Body Otis's head of like, how can I use this to my maximum advantage with every single person sitting in court side seats? Right. You know? and it makes me excited to watch episode two.

Andy: 1:17:10

It does. and I think that's always a, question we have of where, I don't know if it's a, a ranking or if it's just a, statement we make. Like would we be interested in watching episode two based on the pilot?

Sean: 1:17:22

I've already watched it, but I would also say based on the pilot, I would love to see what happens next because who knows? Like he's just been purchased by a guy who runs a gladiator school. We know this guy is able to take out four gladiators, but who knows if that was just luck of the draw, where is this gonna go? Is he gonna get, I mean, cuz really what his thing is, is I gotta do whatever it takes. There is no life without sira. Well

Andy: 1:17:49

that's what's also so impressive is again, it being. Such a crazy, like single-minded vehicle for, nudity and violence. Yes. that each character's like drives and wants are so clear mm-hmm. And intense each one, everyone in this pilot. Right. and it really, it is kind of perfect in that way, in a sense of like, if you are in with what this pilot is giving you in

Sean: 1:18:18

terms of the elements, the, the weird Yeah, the weird shit. The, the gore, the sex, the violence, all that stuff. And the stylized presentation, because I know a lot of people would just run away from that. Right. E even when you were talking about it at the beginning and you did not have a great reaction right away.

Andy: 1:18:31

I wasn't, I just wasn't sure. But I would say many pilots that have their single-minded intention, we're gonna do a, you know, a ridiculous trashy nighttime soap. We're gonna do a hilarious, family sitcom that pierces, they have their clear mo don't hit the target, most of

Sean: 1:18:50

them. It's still, it's still muddy at the end of the

Andy: 1:18:51

pilot. Yeah. Or it's just like, well that was a bad execution of that. Mm-hmm. This thing aims for what it aims for. It hits the target cleanly and it leaves you all these motivations and story to go like, yeah, great. Show me more of that. Right. If that's what you're in for. Which I am also.

Sean: 1:19:10

Right. And, and I guess the one thing I forgot to mention is in this moment they ask. What this guy's name is, and he's like, I never bothered to ask. So they don't even know who this guy is. And that's when Barta says, he reminds me of the ancient Thracian kings of Old Spartacus. And the whole crowd is just, cha know. He let him live, he lives Spartacus, and the whole crowd is just going Spartacus Sparta, a huge, huge crowd of thousands. And then down to four people chanting Spartacus like a closeup on four of them or whatever, chanting Spartacus. And that's, and then we're out on that.

Andy: 1:19:49

and then you go to the map and you see even tinier people chanting Spartacus.

Sean: 1:19:54

so yeah, I would definitely watch episode two, even if I hadn't seen it already.

Andy: 1:19:58

a very entertaining pilot. And, I give it six sliced legs.

Sean: 1:20:03

Mm-hmm. I give it four guys with a net and a Trident, because I know that's the shitty gladiator. That's our show everybody, stick around for our interview with Aaron Cummings, who played Sura. Go sign up at our Patreon so that we can notify you when the full video interview goes up with Aaron. We will be releasing episodes of this podcast on the first and third Sunday of each month going forward. So look forward to that. Also follow us on social media. At copilots TV. And if you're wondering where to watch the pilots that we're discussing, just check the show notes. We'll always have some indication of where you'll be able to find any of the pilots we watch, even the more obscure

Andy: 1:20:54

ones. And you like our show or do you love our show? Uh, if you could give us a five star review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, it would be incredibly helpful to us. Uh, we're a new, just sad and sweaty, struggling, failing podcast. That's not how I see it. I think we're doing fine. Okay. Well, we each have our own perspective. Uh, and if you do give us that five star review, you will get your pilot's wings. We're also going to read a couple of these reviews. In each episode to express our gratitude.

Sean: 1:21:25

So you're going to send me wings in the, in the mail or how, how am I going to get these wings? Oh,

Andy: 1:21:30

you're not, you know, we're not sending or doing anything. We're incredibly lazy, but you can print out your own if you want, on a 3d printer or, uh, you know, send away to some kind of mercantile, uh, company.

Sean: 1:21:41

I don't even know what that means. Uh, what if I hate your show? If

Andy: 1:21:46

you hate our show, Sean, you can also just leave us five stars, uh, on Apple Podcasts or Spotify and you're in, doesn't matter what you write, you can write anything you want in the comment.

Sean: 1:21:55

And you might read my comment, even if I write something incredibly negative.

Andy: 1:21:59

I mean, if it's funny. Or, you know, if we're just feeling incredibly bad about ourselves that day. Sure. Great. That sounds fair. So that's it. That's the end of our show. Thank you all for joining us. Uh, we are coming in for a landing. We don't, I don't know if they're final sign off catchphrase yet.

1:22:22

He said, speaking of which, you know, we have these guys that we've narrowed it down to for the role of Spartacus and we've seen them be fierce and fighting and things, but he has to have this. Relationship with his wife and we want to see the softer side of this guy who's got to be able to play both. Is there any chance you'd be willing to come in just as a reader for our auditions? And I said, yeah, sure. I'll come in. So I go to, you know, wherever they're holding this session. And the first person that's. Good audition is Andy Whitfield, who, as you know, ultimately ended up getting the part. another question is like, were they just lying when they said that sir didn't matter? Or did that become apparent over the course of the shooting of the show? Because she is the reason Spartas does everything he does basically. So, Steven always knew, and inside in his original pitch of the season. Sura was way more a part of the show than she ultimately was. From what I heard through the rumor mill, apparently one of the executives at S. T. A. R. S. uh, had seen the show Rescue Me, the Dennis Leary show Rescue Me, and wasn't a fan of the storyline with his brother, who he kept seeing his brother's ghost, and having conversations with his brother's ghost. He... And he was like, I hate that. It doesn't work. We're not going to do that. so that was sort of the company line was nobody's going to care about the dead wife. And, thankfully, you know, Andy and I had incredible chemistry. We became, um, Instant friends, like really, really close and worked beautifully together. And so, what ended up happening was the dailies came back and they started seeing all these scenes. And for Andy, you know, one of the things that he had said to me was that the scenes with Sura were like a completely different show because Spartacus had to be one Character when he was a gladiator and one and when he was fighting and and then when he was with Sura It was just, it was only me and Andy. There weren't any other people there. I mean, there aren't any other characters. You know what I mean? There were no crowd scenes with Surah and Spartacus. It was always just Surah and Spartacus. And they were so intimate. And I don't even just mean the physical aspect of it. I mean the conversations. They were the kind of conversations that, you know, you just go, wow, these are, this is what love is supposed to look like. These are two, these are, these are warriors together. And so it's like the conversations Andy and I have on this show. Yeah, yeah, that a motive that connects. Why it works really intimate.